How many studs and what pattern?

[Blue Dave]

OK, I started to lay out the pattern on my track and immediately saw this issue. In the area where the rear wheels ride on the inside of the track there are raised "pads" that are angled (assumedly to accommodate the radius of the wheels).

If you put a stud head over this raised "pad" will it still suck down flush when tightened, or do you need to cut the "pad" down flush with the inside of the track wherever there will be a stud head there?

 

[Blue Dave]

Ok, I haven't heard from anyone on my previous post regarding the raised "pads" but I am going on the assumption that nobody is avoiding this area of the track with studs. So I laid out a pattern that utilized 135 studs (three per window on the 45 window 129" track). I then saw an opportunity to balance it out perfectly and add some more studs while still staying between the rails.

Here is what I came up with which utilizes 153 studs in a 3, 3, 3, 4, 4 (five window) pattern that repeats exactly 9 times on this track. I figured that if I turbo this sled I will need the extra studs.

This pattern creates 17 unique scratch lines which are perfectly symmetrical left and right of the center line. The attached picture shows this pattern being repeated a second time with the scratch lines drawn in.

My pattern utilizes 7" of the center of the track keeping the outermost studs in from the windows a bit. The outer edge of the 1 3/8" diameter round backers are 7/16" inward from the windows on row #5 in the picture.

The picture is to scale. I have the exact measurements of each stud center for each row if anyone is interested in using this pattern. Just PM me and I will be happy to share the exact measurements. I will be making my own template to lay this out on the track.

 

[BTbt]

Studs will pull down fine on the raised pads, Cat has been using this design for a while and I had a few sleds studded with these bumps with no issues

 

[Kerrdog569]

I like your pattern! Of course you have a 137" track so I will need less studs to achieve the same thing. I was thinking three per window but now after seeing yours I am wondering about alternating two & four. However the issue is that the 129" track has an odd number of windows at 45. This results in the two & four pattern ending up being identical on two adjacent windows somewhere on the track. (I would have to use either 23 x2 + 22 x4 = 134 or 22 x2 + 23 x4 = 136)

Because I have severe OCD I couldn't sleep at night if I did that! LOL! So I am back to three per window. I need a pattern that repeats every fifth window (instead of the usual fourth window) so that I can have nine identical repeating patterns on this 45 window track.

Where can I find a drawing of a good three per window between the rails pattern that has the most scratch lines, repeats every ninth window, and that is perfectly balanced?

I did 3 per window on mine also

 

[Kerrdog569]

Where mine was going into the center of the raised portion I took a super sharp wood chisel and just sliced the bump right off,real easy to do,I have tall aluminum nuts and if I tried pulling them all the way down in the bumps it stripped the nut so that's why I did it

 

[Blue Dave]

Where mine was going into the center of the raised portion I took a super sharp wood chisel and just sliced the bump right off,real easy to do,I have tall aluminum nuts and if I tried pulling them all the way down in the bumps it stripped the nut so that's why I did it

Good to know. I will probably do the same. Out of my 153 total studs I will have 72 stud heads that will overlap with these raised pad areas.

 

[Blue Dave]

I did 3 per window on mine also

My first layout drawing had three per window (135 studs) but I saw an opportunity to balance the pattern out symmetrically by adding 18 more for a total of 153 studs in a 3, 3, 3, 4, 4 pattern that covers five windows and that repeats exactly 9 times on the 129" 45 window track as shown in my drawing that I posted earlier this morning.

 

[Kerrdog569]

Yep that will be just fine as long as it's balanced out I say go for it

 

[ApexXTX/Viper]

I have run a 3-2-2 pattern on several sleds. On a 128" Apex = 51 lugs divided by 3 =17 x 7 =119 studs. A 2015 137" Viper LTX = 48 lugs divided by 3 =16 x7 = 112 studs. On a 2015 Apex XTX 144" = 57 lugs divided by 3 =19 x7 =133 studs. I feel this gives the best compromise between grip and top end speed loss to to weight (rotating mass).Everything comes out "balanced" and you have minimum studs near the exact centre of track where they are least effective and the majority of studs near the rails where they are most effective. Also dead center always screams "shock towers" to me. I spoke directly to Mark Musselman at Woody's and he said to make sure all studs are torqued to 15 foot-pounds and they will be flush or just below the silent track rubber "V's". I have always torqued every stud (takes an extra step and about one more beverage) but increases your peace of mind. He also said he laid out a pattern for Arctic Cat for the silent track to avoid the "V's" but it was useless with too many studs near the least effective centre of track.

 

[Kerrdog569]

Good to know. I will probably do the same. Out of my 153 total studs I will have 72 stud heads that will overlap with these raised pad areas.

yeah it takes a little extra time but it makes installing them easier,and if they overlap just a little the studs pulled down just fine it's when ya get more to the center of the bumps that I had issues with

 

[Kerrdog569]

I have run a 3-2-2 pattern on several sleds. On a 128" Apex = 51 lugs divided by 3 =17 x 7 =119 studs. A 2015 137" Viper LTX = 48 lugs divided by 3 =16 x7 = 112 studs. On a 2015 Apex XTX 144" = 57 lugs divided by 3 =19 x7 =133 studs. I feel this gives the best compromise between grip and top end speed loss to to weight (rotating mass).Everything comes out "balanced" and you have minimum studs near the exact centre of track where they are least effective and the majority of studs near the rails where they are most effective. Also dead center always screams "shock towers" to me. I spoke directly to Mark Musselman at Woody's and he said to make sure all studs are torqued to 15 foot-pounds and they will be flush or just below the silent track rubber "V's". I have always torqued every stud (takes an extra step and about one more beverage) but increases your peace of mind. He also said he laid out a pattern for Arctic Cat for the silent track to avoid the "V's" but it was useless with too many studs near the least effective centre of track.

I agree I looked at it too and just did my own thing,after studding 3race and trail sleds for 20+ years I really don't get too crazy with exact pinpoint placement either,I got a little template from studboy years ago and I numbered the holes based on track window pitch,no repeats in 5 windows plus I move it over ever so slightly each 5th to make as many scratch lines as possible

 

[Blue Dave]

I have run a 3-2-2 pattern on several sleds. On a 128" Apex = 51 lugs divided by 3 =17 x 7 =119 studs. A 2015 137" Viper LTX = 48 lugs divided by 3 =16 x7 = 112 studs. On a 2015 Apex XTX 144" = 57 lugs divided by 3 =19 x7 =133 studs. I feel this gives the best compromise between grip and top end speed loss to to weight (rotating mass).Everything comes out "balanced" and you have minimum studs near the exact centre of track where they are least effective and the majority of studs near the rails where they are most effective. Also dead center always screams "shock towers" to me. I spoke directly to Mark Musselman at Woody's and he said to make sure all studs are torqued to 15 foot-pounds and they will be flush or just below the silent track rubber "V's". I have always torqued every stud (takes an extra step and about one more beverage) but increases your peace of mind. He also said he laid out a pattern for Arctic Cat for the silent track to avoid the "V's" but it was useless with too many studs near the least effective centre of track.

Thanks! I guess I will try pulling the heads flush on the raided pads first to see if I can get away from having to shave them down. I wanted the LTX DX with the 137" 48 window track but it wouldn't fit in my 10' enclosed trailer so I settled with the RTX DX with the 129" 45 window track.

The 48 window track allows for a lot more studding patterns that repeat evenly. You can repeat every 2, 4, 6, or 8 windows. If I had the LTX I would probably have gone with a 2 & 4 pattern repeating every 4 or 6 windows.

The 45 window track is a bit more challenging to find a pattern for that repeats evenly. The 2 & 4 pattern on the 45 window track will result in two adjacent windows with both having either 2 or 4 studs somewhere on the track.

The 45 window track can really only have a 3 window pattern that repeats 15 times or a 5 window pattern that repeats 9 times. I suppose that you could have a 15 window pattern that repeats 3 times but that certainly isn't ideal.

I am thinking that my three rows of 3 studs followed by two rows of 4 studs (repeating a total of 9 times) has the rows of 4 studs repeating often enough as to not cause an imbalance. Because it is identical and repeats after 5 windows I believe that it will be balanced rotationally.

I think that 153 studs between the rails with 17 unique scratch lines should be perfect if I turbo the sled. As I said earlier, all of my stud pull outs on previous sleds have always been outside of the rails so I am not going to put studs there anymore.

 

[Blue Dave]

Here is another pattern that I sketched for the 129" 45 window track that also spans 5 windows and repeats evenly 9 times.

It utilizes only 90 studs and has 10 unique scratch lines. For me this was not enough studs since I plan on adding a turbo. However for someone with a stock RTX Viper that is looking for just enough studs for trail riding this may be the way to go.

 

[WVTurboLTX]

I did my dad's 120 doo with a similar pattern to your 33344 and I ran into vibration issues with that sled. I've got the woody's template for your track down stairs because my mom got an RTX this year. I'll take some pictures in a little bit on what they recommend. Basically they do a 6 row pattern and the last go around you only use 3 rows of the template. Theirs is a 333333. I've have been told that the one stud per horsepower rule holds true up to 144 studs. After that you're just adding unnecessary weight to the track unless you are doing a lot of drag racing on ice. Woody's only recommends 144 on the turbo cat 137 for aggressive trail riders.

 

[WVTurboLTX]

First and second row

Third and fourth

Fifth and sixth

They pull right into the pads. It doesn't look like it in the pic but they are flush.