How many vipers with starters going bad?

[NOS-PRO]

All I can say is when we were dynoing the sleds at EVO, we re-created the kick-back (which Dave_RX1 never had a problem with until he saw it first hand on his sled on the dyno. Then after we changed to the 2014 original ECU which I purchased from another member from this site.... In an 80°+ dyno room, we had one hot start issue, but I do remember it was when we were going to recirculate the coolant cause we had fans blowing on it. Tried to get the sleds cooled down as fast as we could so we could get everything taken care of in one day.

Since the performance flash, I have been at the track twice racing and just like the original 2014, I have yet to have a kick-back or hot start on the 25+ times a race day starting.

Don't know what EVO did, but my sled fires up immediately everytime. And I had problems after my 2015 re-flash from Yamaha

 

[yamadoo]

Would I know if I had a kick back?
Sound or feel?
I have had no hard starts or hot start issues.
Just wondering suspect there are many wondering.

 

[NOS-PRO]

Would I know if I had a kick back?
Sound or feel?
I have had no hard starts or hot start issues.
Just wondering suspect there are many wondering.

When you are cranking your sled over, during start up the engine will crank and if there is a kick-back...the starter will stop cranking and then begin cranking again....this is all while the key is in the start position.

You wouldn't feel it unless the starter broke....at that time it will make a shearing grinding sound. At that moment the damage is already done. Shagman went 8 starts after his started making noise.

As for Shagman's sled, we did not have to pull the engine. The right side stator cover comes right off and then with the exhaust header out, you can remove the starter.

The bad part with this is if your starter goes out, breaks teeth off of the gear and the starter gear....it goes right into the flywheel, magnets and windings. If it happens to me I will stop then and there so I don't get pieces in the flywheel....cause I saw what it does.

 

[Joshua]

So I have the hot start issue. Never had a cold start issue. Can EVO fix this problem? I don't need anymore power since i'm already boosted, but would like to have my Rev limiter increased

 

[NOS-PRO]

Yes they can. They can load a program that would cure your starting program and raise your rev limiter

 

[Joshua]

Maybe a dumb question but, will this program still work with my pc5 for my turbo?

 

[NOS-PRO]

Maybe a dumb question but, will this program still work with my pc5 for my turbo?

Yes it will, but depends on what map you have. EVO changed some of the fuel mapping, so Jim at EVO may tell you to go all 0's. I would ask Jim tho.

 

[titanrcr]

Would I know if I had a kick back?
Sound or feel?
I have had no hard starts or hot start issues.
Just wondering suspect there are many wondering.

While the engine is cranking over (not running yet) the cranking will come to an abrupt stop. This occurs when the fuel air mixture in one of the cylinders fires well before TDC (top dead center) which can push the piston back down in the wrong direction in direct opposition to what the starter is trying to do.
This may or may not cause a starter failure the first time it happens but I'm sure you can imagine that this is a violent event. What can you do to prevent this? Keep your battery up to snuff, the faster the engine is cranking over the less likely it would be to kick back, also keep the key turned to the cranking position until the engine is running on your first start.

I think that by reducing the timing advance a few degrees below 1k RPM would stop the kick back problem but I don't know if it's possible with this ECU ?

I hope Yamaha does something correct this, I feel that it's just a matter of time before it happens to every Viper owner.

PS, I'll bet that the turbo guys running low comp pistons or head shims don't get any kick backs ??

 

[cannondale27]

What did Evo do to alleviate the kickback other than using 14 base flash? As said 14's failed also. If failure occurs like Nos described with starter just stopping. It may not be kickback even causing failure.

 

[NOS-PRO]

What did Evo do to alleviate the kickback other than using 14 base flash? As said 14's failed also. If failure occurs like Nos described with starter just stopping. It may not be kickback even causing failure.

All I can tell you is fom my standpoint, the EVO flash is working. Works great starting with my fuel controller (races August 27th) and without the fuel controller (races October 3rd). I do not know what he changed but I used to have the kick-back and lean pop after my re-flash from Yamaha.

As fr as the kick-back/stopping, titanrcr explained it much better than I did.

 

[shadow637]

What did Evo do to alleviate the kickback other than using 14 base flash? As said 14's failed also. If failure occurs like Nos described with starter just stopping. It may not be kickback even causing failure.

My 2014 RTX (and a buddies XF7000) never once had a kickback the first season of riding (2400mi), random long crank hot starts, but never a kickback. As soon as we had the 2015 update flash done they both started doing the random kickback and mine finally broke the starter gears. If 2014's had starter issues I would have to think it was from hot start issues causing overheated starters during long cranks, not kickbacks.

 

[RTX]

Would I know if I had a kick back?
Sound or feel?
I have had no hard starts or hot start issues.
Just wondering suspect there are many wondering.

Oh my god! yes you will know!
It is the horrendous sound of metal crunching into metal.
Once you have heard it you will never forget it. It will leave a giant pit in your stomach for the next weel or so.

 

[RTX]

What did Evo do to alleviate the kickback other than using 14 base flash? As said 14's failed also. If failure occurs like Nos described with starter just stopping. It may not be kickback even causing failure.

Im not saying your wrong but i dont recall starter issues in 14
i own a 14 and i never had a kick back till after the reflash and i had about 1200 miles on the 14 ecu. Onlt about 400 on the reflash and its already kicked bacl.
Also i bought my 14 the last week of march 2014 and did my research.
I remember the antifreeze leaks. The guages going blank, hot and cold start issues. Reverse actuator issues.
Some random air shocks losing air issues, engines puking out oil in driveways, clutching issues, thumb and grip warmer issues, top speed issues, random no starts with odd engine codes, but i Don't remember reading any issues about starter failures in the first year.
Im sure starters failed, but i think the failed 14 starters were due to extended cranking from hot and cold start issues.

I know yellowknifes starter failed but that guy was videoing himself holding the key on repeatedly for 2 minutes at a time untill the battery died. Then repeating the process with a jump pack.
No starter could live through a season of that

I would say titanrcr nailed it in his post!!

 

[shagman]

Im not saying your wrong but i dont recall starter issues in 14
i own a 14 and i never had a kick back till after the reflash and i had about 1200 miles on the 14 ecu. Onlt about 400 on the reflash and its already kicked bacl.
Also i bought my 14 the last week of march 2014 and did my research.
I remember the antifreeze leaks. The guages going blank, hot and cold start issues. Reverse actuator issues.
Some random air shocks losing air issues, engines puking out oil in driveways, clutching issues, thumb and grip warmer issues, top speed issues, random no starts with odd engine codes, but i Don't remember reading any issues about starter failures in the first year.
Im sure starters failed, but i think the failed 14 starters were due to extended cranking from hot and cold start issues.

I know yellowknifes starter failed but that guy was videoing himself holding the key on repeatedly for 2 minutes at a time untill the battery died. Then repeating the process with a jump pack.
No starter could live through a season of that

I would say titanrcr nailed it in his post!!

My results were the same as RTX. Fine until reflash. Starter died at end of year from kickbacks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[cannondale27]

Well Studroes and his buddy both had 14's with original flash and both had the failure.