How many vipers with starters going bad?

[RTX]

I have had my starter kick back twice, but have been good and had no issues in the last 1500 miles. Should I be worried about the gear having busted off teeth like everyone's experience or should I not worry about ripping everything apart. Not even sure where to begin but it doesn't look like fun!

Not picking on you but your pic shows a nytro and your signature says you ride a nytro
This is the viper forum, Are you sure your posting in the correct forum?
Or are you saying your nytro is kicking back

 

[Allan]

LOL On the Arctic cat site there saying it is Yamaha Motor and starter in the problem and it's hurting there brand.
On this site most are saying it is Arctic cat problem with programming and it hurts Yamaha reputation.
I really don't care who's problem it is, I just hope they have it fixed.

 

[new rob]

I'm with you Allen but I don't hope they fix it more like they better .

 

[shagman]

Not picking on you but your pic shows a nytro and your signature says you ride a nytro
This is the viper forum, Are you sure your posting in the correct forum?
Or are you saying your nytro is kicking back

I don't know what he is riding but know that both the Vector and Nytro have had some of the same. Saw it at my dealer and had known about it from them. But it's rare that they break the gear. They usually just have the starter fail.


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[stingray719]

I don't know what he is riding but know that both the Vector and Nytro have had some of the same. Saw it at my dealer and had known about it from them. But it's rare that they break the gear. They usually just have the starter fail.


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Yep, and they had a rash of starters the long bolts were not tight and the outer housing would turn. Not bashing Yamaha just saying there were some starter issues they just sold so few sleds in 2008 to 2013 it wasn't that noticed. And according to Canondales pic and his description the gear he has failed from metal failure I.E. crystallization. Backfire or not crystalized metal is going to break. I suspect rather than recall 15k sleds they are just going to fix the ones that break.....just a guess though.

 

[cannondale27]

Has anyone tried to set up the throttle body's on this engine because Yamaha is none to have them not equal on there bikes and they end up being lean?

So some of us may have a junk gear in our motors.
If your sled starts great like mine and many out there with 15 flash I would just ride. If not:
Throttle body's synced as smooth ride said
Valve clearance to loose side?
TPS out of spec or any sensor affecting startup. Coolant,O2,baro and air temp may all be in play also.
Crap gas
Bad battery or connections
Poor spark from bad coil or connections or just shot or fouled plugs. I do run the CR9ek in mine and if needed a Platinum will not foul
Too tight of Belt Deflection
Messed up tune from a tuner like PCV.
Lastly a bad flash of which nothing can be done short of simply swapping ECU with a known good running sled to verify whether it is in fact the flash which is issue. If anyone in my area with a problem sled wants to try swapping I would do it.
There is a lot of things that can account for the variances in how these things start and run.

 

[09nytro]

Cat throttle bodies but they should


No kick back no broken gears! If its a gear problem then the kick back becomes normal and not a problem?????? Its not a sudden stop of the motor its a speed up to take out the lash then and reversal multiplying the impact. A sudden stop with all the gears tight against each other would not cause a problem.

Throttle bodies and engine are Yamaha , vectors and nytro both had some starter problems and ring gear , this is by for and great marriage and this sled is the best handling sled that came from the Yamaha camp I must say !

 

[Sasquatch]

Throttle bodies and engine are Yamaha , vectors and nytro both had some starter problems and ring gear , this is by for and great marriage and this sled is the best handling sled that came from the Yamaha camp I must say !

The Cat throttle bodies was not intended as a post but seems the site saved and posted a thought that was removed but somehow it came back. Vector and Nytro had different starter problems and yes the Cat handles well! To bad the marriage of tech is getting a bad rap!

 

[yamaha06]

Not picking on you but your pic shows a nytro and your signature says you ride a nytro
This is the viper forum, Are you sure your posting in the correct forum?
Or are you saying your nytro is kicking back

Ya I never got around to changing that stuff, I was talking about my Viper.

 

[cannondale27]

The Cat throttle bodies was not intended as a post but seems the site saved and posted a thought that was removed but somehow it came back. Vector and Nytro had different starter problems and yes the Cat handles well! To bad the marriage of tech is getting a bad rap!

You are the one saying the marriage is bad! I think it has been a great thing. Although I do miss some things. These issues have been going on for awhile.
Just so you know the Vipers have had the occasional stuck solenoid and starter running all the time to and some of the Vectors and last Nytros that gear failed also. But really how many Nytros and Vectors were sold in 2013 compared to Vipers in 14 and 15? Hardly none. I think Yamaha saw the Yellowknife vids and gave us all a crummy tune at start up and idle because of it. The 15 tune did correct all the codes us 14 guys had and it did give us a extra 100 rpm. One would think that if they went through the trouble of correcting those issues something would have been done about failed starters and gears because they were failing by then. Since not all sleds run or start or kickback maybe like has been said the download is bad. At least there is a download. Something Yamaha has never done before. That's something Cat brought to the marriage.

Perhaps someone could make that gear properly. Or maybe do a nondestructive test of OEM's gears? I know a hardness test could easily be done but I don't know if it can be done to show depth of hardness. Is it possible that with a good gear the starter will just literally rip off engine with a bad kickback? Yes. That has happened also. Much easier to fix and no parts left in motor. I could live with that as long as sled starts well.

 

[Sasquatch]

Kick back breaks stuff. You can blame it on the gear if you wish but when two companies can't figure it out together that is a bad marriage. Stuck starters are nothing new and have been happening since the RX. Yamaha is working with Cat and has been since the first year Viper came out to rectify bad starting. So far no luck!

 

[stingray719]

Kick back breaks stuff. You can blame it on the gear if you wish but when two companies can't figure it out together that is a bad marriage. Stuck starters are nothing new and have been happening since the RX. Yamaha is working with Cat and has been since the first year Viper came out to rectify bad starting. So far no luck!

More than one cause to starters going bad. The pic Cannondale posted was metal crystallization, which is impending failure that can be hurried by abuse (kickbacks,etc) But I am not going to spend any more time explaining metallurgy as I feel you are here to bash not learn anything.

 

[Joe ltx-le]

More than one cause to starters going bad. The pic Cannondale posted was metal crystallization, which is impending failure that can be hurried by abuse (kickbacks,etc) But I am not going to spend any more time explaining metallurgy as I feel you are here to bash not learn anything.

I'm not a metalurgy expert but I've had some training and what is crystilaztion? These are cast gears with most likely case hardening on the teeth. Am I right? Is crystallization a casting flaw?

 

[cannondale27]

I'm not a metalurgy expert but I've had some training and what is crystilaztion? These are cast gears with most likely case hardening on the teeth. Am I right? Is crystallization a casting flaw?

That would be correct except that failed gear was hardened all the way through the teeth at least. Doesn't look to be cast either like the Phazer gear which is definitely cast. From what I have seen the crystallization is from being hardened too far.Too deep. Makes it brittle. Like glass or a diamond. The Phazer gear is hardened but just at surface which is why the chisel and sledge didn't knock tooth off just mushed it over. Tough on outside to prevent wear but flexible inside so it doesn't crack. Case hardened like you said. That's the problem. I could go buy a gear and get it tested but I don't believe the hardness test show difference between something case hardened or fully hardened? If I remember right you had to cut it in half to check under surface?

 

[Joe ltx-le]

That would be correct except that failed gear was hardened all the way through the teeth at least. Doesn't look to be cast either like the Phazer gear which is definitely cast. From what I have seen the crystallization is from being hardened too far.Too deep. Makes it brittle. Like glass or a diamond. The Phazer gear is hardened but just at surface which is why the chisel and sledge didn't knock tooth off just mushed it over. Tough on outside to prevent wear but flexible inside so it doesn't crack. Case hardened like you said. That's the problem. I could go buy a gear and get it tested but I don't believe the hardness test show difference between something case hardened or fully hardened? If I remember right you had to cut it in half to check under surface?

Your right there. Very hard to check case hardening depth without destroying the piece.

I've seen very similar problems on some cat Diesel engine timing gears. Too deep on the hardening, my question is why wouldn't there be a fix yet if this is the problem. But again if there was zero kick back even the gears that are in question would probably never fail.