1. We are no longer supporting TapaTalk as a mobile app for our sites. The TapaTalk App has many issues with speed on our server as well as security holes that leave us vulnerable to attacks and spammers.
    Dismiss Notice

I need help SW down again losing coolant 550 miles - *FIXED* fingers crossed

Discussion in 'SideWinder Trail Talk' started by kinger, Feb 6, 2020.


  1. kinger

    kinger VIP Member VIP Member

    Messages:
    6,523
    Location:
    Clear Lake, IA
    *Edit Fixed as of March 10th, still not tested or run yet, snow gone. hoping for a spring storm to see if I can get 100 miles on with no issues. *





    I feel I have been patient but the sled just got back from motor rebuild #2 paid for by Yamaha. Didn’t make it 30 miles and overheated. Messed with bleeding for 2 days. 2nd ruined trip.

    Drove from WI back to IA and right to the dealer. They had it a week. They put a new thermostat in and no change. Pressurized the coolant and its leaking somewhere internal. Same exact thing as first time with 330 miles. The dealer is very frustrated with Yamaha. They think its another cracked head but Yamaha said they don't know and to keep tearing it apart until they find the leak. That said dealer is positive it will be months before a resolution and new parts and back together.

    This has all been warranty. I have a 4 year YES as well. No hint of charging so its not a money out of pocket thing. It’s purely a massive inconvenience for a passion of mine that has been ruined 2 seasons in a row. They wont trade it in, they wont give me my money back, they wont give me a loaner. I feel trapped.

    The dealer wants me to call yamaha and raise a fuss. It is tuned and I don't want to risk a complete denial. Although I don't feel the problems are at all related to the tune.

    You guys know my love for Yammies but this is painful!! I’m trying to get my SC apex going again to salvage something but thats not going great either.

    What would you do in this situation? Just looking for advice. I cant just “dump it” and move on. Next owner will have same issues. Im not confident it will get fixed unless I do it myself which I don’t have time for.

    Opinions welcomed! Thanks!!
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2020
  2.  

  3. maim

    maim Moderator Staff Member Moderator Lifetime VIP Member VIP Member

    Messages:
    5,682
    Location:
    sudbury on
    Country:
    Canada
    Snowmobile:
    2016 apex xtx/ 2011 apex xtx/ 2009 phaser rtx/x/ 1997 et410t/r
    dealer does not have a demo or trade in of any model you could put some miles on?
     
    RTX, kinger, STAIN and 1 other person like this.
  4. Turboflash

    Turboflash VIP Member VIP Member

    Messages:
    1,041
    Location:
    Minneapolis
    Country:
    USA
    Snowmobile:
    '17 ZR9000 Ltd. PEFI Stg 4.
    1. You say pressure test on cooling system fails. That means somewhere pressure is escaping cooling system (hoses, heat exchangers, water pump, oil cooler, turbo expansion tank, block, head).
    2. Since pressure test fails, then coolant is going somewhere. Does oil level increase at all either during test or when running engine? Note - it may not increase when engine is idling. Does coolant overflow bottle level decrease at all? How about after running engine and sled cools down? Is coolant level same? If not sure, use a felt tip pen and mark the oil level and coolant level when cold, ride sled until hot, then let it cool down. Is coolant level exactly same? Is oil level exactly same?
    3. Does your dealer have the ability to pressure test ONLY the head? This is done with a machined flat plate (aluminum) clamped to the combustion chamber side (some use a flat 1/2" thick piece of lexan). Sealing between head and plate can be done with piece of thin rubber. Plug all holes except one where you can then put air pressure (20+ psi) on head (need air pressure regulator). Submerse head in 5 gallon bucket of water with air pressure on it and look for air bubbles. This test will tell you definitively and positively IF the head is compromised. If it passes, problem is NOT in head. If you see ANY air bubbles, head is compromised.
    4. Make sure there are no external leaks to cooling system. Heat exchangers, hoses, thermostat housing, turbo cooling tank, oil cooler, etc. Any coolant coming out of weep hole on water pump?
    5. Send oil sample in for testing. Is there coolant in oil?

    I believe you and I have had exchanges on your first engine. I have first hand experience of a cracked head. NOT easy to see with naked eye. But coolant level would go down when riding sled, oil level would increase when riding sled. AND, I had coolant in the oil big time. Every ounce of coolant that went out of the coolant tank went in the oil. Cracked head - left side core plug boss had a crack that ran down the side of the boss. Coolant escaping through crack and running down head and draining into oil sump. Coolant level going down, oil level going up.
     

    Attached Files:

    kinger likes this.
  5. kinger

    kinger VIP Member VIP Member

    Messages:
    6,523
    Location:
    Clear Lake, IA
    It failed all of your tests. Coolant in the oil again. No sign of any visible leaks. Keep adding coolant its never in the same spot after each ride.

    Yes you were a big help on the first engine! Thank you!

    @maim going to talk to the dealership owner tomorrow.
     
  6. ClutchMaster

    ClutchMaster HUGE Member VIP Member

    Messages:
    2,771
    Location:
    tomahawk
    Country:
    USA
    Snowmobile:
    2015 Viper 270 hurricane,
    2002 Viper W/162 A.C. skid, SRX pipes &CDI, 780 BB
    LOCATION:
    Wisconsin
    2nd year that’s horrible. Lemon law is in effect for any vehicle. I would talk to a lawyer.
    Seriously they need to provide you with a new vehicle or get your money back.

    I suggest you hurry because in your state you have only 24 months after date of purchase.

    https://www.bbb.org/us/Storage/16/Documents/BBBAutoLine/IA-LLsummary.pdf
     
    kinger, STAIN, YukonMP and 1 other person like this.
  7. number1kyster

    number1kyster TY 4 Stroke God

    Messages:
    1,578
    Location:
    Vermont
    Country:
    USA
    Snowmobile:
    2018 SW RTX SE
    It's a shame Yamaha does this.

    I've had it done to me twice now with Grizzly ATV's. The first one, they had a whole summer throwing parts at it, the second one they had two month.

    My dealer told me that Yamaha would only authorize replacing one piece at a time so they knew exactly what caused the issue.
     
    kinger likes this.
  8. SideHogger

    SideHogger Expert

    Messages:
    462
    Location:
    upstate ny
    Country:
    USA
    Snowmobile:
    2017 Ltx-Le Sidewinder
    IMO... Dealer is the one who should be fighting Yamaha as much and more for you! My local dealer many years ago brought Polaris to court because of a lot of the same issues you are having with Yamaha. He was the type of Dealer that if you were having problem with sled under warranty, no questions, he would just fix the issue and on your way. Well, Polaris wouldn't go good for so many things under warranty, he took them to court and won! Needless to say, Polaris dropped him like a hot potato! But he still had Yamaha and Arctic Cat and they never questioned any warranty work he did on those sleds! What sucks is he sold business and they ended up not selling sleds at all.
     
    STAIN likes this.
  9. SnoWarrior

    SnoWarrior Lifetime Member Lifetime VIP Member VIP Member

    Messages:
    406
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    Country:
    USA
    Snowmobile:
    2018 Sidewinder LTX LE
    I had a similar incident with my 05 Warrior....old post. Engine burned up on the trail. Yamaha told dealer to tear the motor down and they would fly a rep out to look at it. (blah, blah, blah)

    I called Yamaha, kept my cool, got a young lady that was in charge of my case. I explained the situation, short season, all the money I spent on new sleds etc.
    Turned out she was some kinda manager or supervisor.

    She told me that she called a meeting with her superiors that day, and would get back to me. She was a great help. She called me back and they sent a new crate motor to the dealer to get my sled done.

    I don't know if things are the same with customer service, but they did the right thing by me, after I intervened. Otherwise the process would have taken months.

    I would contact Yamaha, ask for a customer relations supervisor, and plead your case. Get their mailing information and follow up with a letter, the whole story. I would also CC the Yamaha Motors corporate vice president, That information is public, and can be found using Google.

    I know sometimes "things happen", but in this situation Yamaha should be doing everything possible to take
    care of the customer, and get you back riding. Obviously this is a unique situation, and should require special attention.

    Best of luck, and keep us posted
     
  10. Motorhead

    Motorhead VIP Member VIP Member

    Messages:
    1,496
    Location:
    Augusta, Maine
    Country:
    USA
    Snowmobile:
    2017 SW LTX-LE
    LOCATION:
    Augusta ME
    After hearing about your 2 year nightmare with this junk, and most importantly missing two seasons of riding.
    Yamaha owes you much more then just a brand new sled or at least a motor out of a new showroom sled NOW.

    WTF, how long would it take experienced techs to change one out.

    Yes call Yamaha now and if they cannot resolve this matter with dealer now, involve an attorney !

    What other option do you have?

    Sure looks like your patience will not be rewarded unless you “Get Loud”!

    You have already been screwed. Do not allow another!
     
    ClutchMaster and kinger like this.
  11. DooZ

    DooZ Expert

    Messages:
    333
    Location:
    Minocqua, WI
    Country:
    USA
    Snowmobile:
    '17 ZR9000RR, Doo 1200
    You are in a tough spot, Yami probably knows the sled has been tuned, so like you said I don't think you can scream & holler. Whether tuning the sled caused the issue or not, it sure gives them an out if things get ugly. Hopefully your dealer is 100% in your corner and willing to hold Yami's feet to the proverbial fire.
     
    kinger likes this.
  12. Turboflash

    Turboflash VIP Member VIP Member

    Messages:
    1,041
    Location:
    Minneapolis
    Country:
    USA
    Snowmobile:
    '17 ZR9000 Ltd. PEFI Stg 4.
    If head is cracked (like mine was) it's not at all easy to see (it's a hairline crack). It took a high-powered magnifying glass to see.
    One other question is when running sled, does the cooling system get over-pressurized? Does it blow coolant out of it? If yes, means the compromise is in combustion chamber (compression) side. If no, then it's not on compression side and it has to be on top side like mine was.
    They should remove valve cover, pressurize cooling system (~ 20 psi) and use magnifying glass to go over top side of head inch by inch especially near core bosses. Again, it's hard to see. Coolant would not be gushing out, but rather a slow trickle out of a crack, almost transparent.

    Yamaha SHOULD replace your sled after all is said and done. I agree with those who say it's time to raise holy h#@* at Yamaha.
     
    ClutchMaster likes this.
  13. Byam

    Byam VIP Member VIP Member

    Messages:
    723
    Location:
    En Motoneige
    Country:
    Canada
    Snowmobile:
    SW LTX
    custom :-)
    I hope for you that Yamaha will NOT wash theirs hands and say it’s tunes fault....
    Doesn’t smell good :o|:mad:#$%&*
     
  14. Turboflash

    Turboflash VIP Member VIP Member

    Messages:
    1,041
    Location:
    Minneapolis
    Country:
    USA
    Snowmobile:
    '17 ZR9000 Ltd. PEFI Stg 4.
    Agree. Has nothing to do with tune. As we know, there are thousands of tuned 998s that don't have this problem.
     
    jonlafon1, kinger and DooZ like this.
  15. Crazy Canuk

    Crazy Canuk Pro

    Messages:
    192
    Location:
    Northern Ontario
    If I am not mistaken, I believe there is a dye that can be put in coolant that will help find this (under an alternative light source)? That may be something to suggest.

    This sucks OP, I feel for you.
     
    YukonMP, kinger, DooZ and 2 others like this.
  16. 0degC

    0degC Veteran

    Messages:
    29
    This exactly. All this sucks and sure the tune did not cause problems, but if they are fixing it I would be cautious. Don't complain much.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice