I will install and try the MOTEC plug in ecu remplacement

[FrostyNutz]

Motec is an awesome EMS ,,, now get the Plug and Play RacePac display unit and enjoy all the benefits at a glance

http://www.racepak.com/Components/IQ3_Display.php

Motec > Proefi > AEM > any piggyback system .

 

[mbarryracing]

Cool, I have the AEM 30-4100 that has both a 0-5v output and a serial output so should have that covered...

So are the cal's that it comes with sufficient (plug and ride) or does it require more fine tunign to get it to run correct on the trail?
Considering the bigger injector option, as well.

 

[nate007]

You will need to re-map the computer to accept and modify the operation using feedback from the wideband, if that's what you're asking?
It wont just sense the signal and know what to do with it. You'll have to tell it what to do at each incriment of voltage. Depending on your software that may not be that difficult, but you will have to re-program it to be able to use the signal.

 

[mbarryracing]

nate007,
Yes, I figured that.
Sorry No, what I meant was in general (regardless of the closed loop conversation) once installed does it require additional monkeying around with the calibrations it comes with to get it to run clean on the trail, like I've had to with piggy back controllers...
Or is it really plug and play, calibration good? Past experience has shown that some companies programs are far from desireable "out of the box", just curious how much I'd have to tinker after the install with this stand alone. Looks like they did a lot of development up front...

I am looking at this for my decompressed Apex to run 12 lbs in trail form 99% of the time, then not sure what is achievable in race form but researching.

 

[mulot30th]

Motec calibration that come with the ecu is develloped for stock engine on boost

now, if you have a more efficient engine (like the one I have on my motec ed turbo apex) then you ll definately need to adjust their tune so your engine is happy with it.


The way they did the map is they have a BASE map that is ALPHA-N style and a map compensation for boost.

This of course give crisp throttle response ... but take a lot more time to fine tune for a particular engine. The smallest of change in engine breathing caracteristic may required change to this table or it will not run at all... that is how it happened for me.... but the time spent is well invested once you got it spot on!

 

[mbarryracing]

ALPHA-N? Can you explain that? Is that same as referring to Speed Density type calibration tables? Or just plain throttle position vs RPM?

How did you determine the correct changes? Riding or dyno?

 

[desperado]

Let me provide a few answers as I am the person who originally conducted the developement project with MoTeC in 2010 and I have used and tuned MoTeC systems for many years.

About the lambda sensors: the M400 will accept any 0-5v input from controllers such as AEM, Innovate or NTK. You can use one of the many AV (analog volt) input or even AT inputs to log a lambda signal from an external controller. Another method is to connect your lambda probe (LSU, LSU 4.2, LSU 4.9 or NTK) directly to the M400 which will then turn itself as the O2 controller, eliminating the need for an external device and which can make running lambda closed loop possible. Running lambda closed loop on the M400 means you will always be accurately meeting the AFR target you define in a lambda target table. If an external lambda controller is used, then an auxiliary output can be used to send the lambda value to any digital or analog gauge. Signal can even be sent on the CAN bus for display on the oem gauge as a replacement for the barometric pressure value which is standard on the oem dash cluster.

About upgrading to larger injectors: The M400 allows to upgrade to larger injectors without altering the main fuel table. This is done by changing only one value which is called the IJPU. This is a single value defining the injection time per 720 degree (4 cycle engine...) time window. Once the IJPU is adjusted to match the flow of larger injectors, dependant tables such as acceleration enrichement are also automatically adjusted. ONce this is done, the next thing to do is to fine tune using another single value function: the overall trim. The overall trim is like a digital screwdriver that will quickly get you to the desired AFR. Once the overall trim is set and the user is satisfied with the tune, then another function (single key stroke) allow to modify all fuel maps to reflect the overall trim value, then the overall trim return to zero. Most people go wrong with injector upgrades because they forget to update the injector dead time table. This has little impact at anything above 50% duty cycle but has a huge impact at duty cycle below 20%, making the engine run like it is badly tuned. Serious injector manufacturers will always provide injector dead time data from 8vdc to 14vdc.

About load setup for injection: Since the Yamaha engine has no plenum and uses multi-throttle bodies, the method of choice for such a setup is a 4D fuel map consisiting of a primary load table based on TP and RPM and a secondary load table based on MAP and RPM. In addition, there is an additional linear MAP compensation that doubles fuel flow per every 100kpa.

About real world usage: Approximately 10,000 miles were logged last season on various applications: NA, nitrous, MPI superchargers and twin screw as well as turbos.

About tuning for changes: Dynos are great for tuning for maximum power and tuning timing maps when proper equipement and knock management systems are used. However, dyno tuning will never be as good as real world riding and tuning. The M400 features a 512kb data logging memory that allows to log up to 64 individual channels at a rate up to 200hz. Typical tuning time on the snow for someone who knows how to use a MoTeC is 2 hours to get the tune 90% right. The remaining 10% really depends on how perfect the calibration needs to be and also what functions are enabled. For example, if lambda closed loop is enabled and closed loop knock control is enabled, then the ECU does everything automatically to perfection and returns an error % value to the user corresponding to how far the base maps are from the targets set for closed loop control. In other words, if you set the WOT lambda target at 0,78, then the actual WOT lambda will always be 0,78..... regardless if your base map is something like +8% off. Good practice would suggest the base map be adjusted to reduce the 8% delta to something more reasonnable from 0% to 4% for example.

Hope this helps.

 

[mulot30th]

Desperado, I would need the injector latency time data for the injectors you sold me this spring

Part of the reason the base map was so much off for my sled is related to this for sure.


thank you

 

[mulot30th]

ALPHA-N? Can you explain that? Is that same as referring to Speed Density type calibration tables? Or just plain throttle position vs RPM?

How did you determine the correct changes? Riding or dyno?

alpha-n is VE in relation to TPS/RPM


SD is VE in relation to MAP/RPM



Motec use a mix of both

 

[mbarryracing]

Awesome, thanks for the great explanations and information!

 

[desperado]

Desperado, I would need the injector latency time data for the injectors you sold me this spring

Part of the reason the base map was so much off for my sled is related to this for sure.


thank you

Here you go: Bosch EV-14, all units in Usec.

 

[mulot30th]

thank you martin

 

[mbarryracing]

OK, pulled the trigger on the MoTec for my christmas present to myself. LOL!

Really looking forward to playing with it when we finally get some snow to ride on.

 

[mbarryracing]

The eagle has landed... It arrived prompt, have the USB adapter and 3 bar MAP sensor as well.
Keep ya posted on the install progress.

 

[kinger]

Holy cow that is a big step! Awesome cant wait to see the results, wiring, etc. Take lots of picts!

Always like your feedback. Should be interesting.