whitedust1
TY 4 Stroke God
cannondale27 said:
Retooling for new platform has nothing to do with by gone days it is all about what you can sell now & moving forward. Yamaha can continue to produce & dealers can sell spare parts forever no problem with that. Yamaha current shrinking market share is a problem for any ROI for sled AR&D & reason for same old same old year after year. No bucks so nothing new simple as that. I like Yamaha snowmobiles but platforms are old in the tooth & other OEMS have caught up & passed Yamaha with 4s snowmobile market share this year.
09nytro
TY 4 Stroke God
So teaming up with AC is the answer ...I don't think so
It is a better option than the current Yamaha plan of doing nothing. Pretty hard to sell new Yamaha's when the current sleds all look like they are 5-6 years old and everyone knows they are heavy. Innovate or die. The other OEM's don't seem to have an issue with coming out with new stuff.
Who does Yamaha even sell sleds to? My 5 model year old Nytro isn't worn out. Why would I replace it with the same thing? Heck, Anchorage Yamaha just pulled an '08 40th anniversery Nytro out of the crate this spring because nobody wants to buy Yamahas and they aren't selling sleds.
I'm just glad I'm not a Yamaha dealer. It has got to be tough selling sleds that few people want, trying to sell Rhinos that haven't hardly changed since they came out in '04.
They NEED to do something.
Who does Yamaha even sell sleds to? My 5 model year old Nytro isn't worn out. Why would I replace it with the same thing? Heck, Anchorage Yamaha just pulled an '08 40th anniversery Nytro out of the crate this spring because nobody wants to buy Yamahas and they aren't selling sleds.
I'm just glad I'm not a Yamaha dealer. It has got to be tough selling sleds that few people want, trying to sell Rhinos that haven't hardly changed since they came out in '04.
They NEED to do something.
Chris Reid's latest blog alludes to 2016 ... for what? Retooling? New models?
Wasn't 2014 supposed to be the YMC deadline? Promises promises.
It's high time we accept that YMC won't be delivering anything new anytime soon. The sooner we do, the sooner we can get on with enjoying what we have in our current sleds.
Plus, there are plenty of aftermarket products available to make your sled better. If you have the coin for a new sled, but don't want to buy one from another OEM, spend some of it with the sponsors on this site. It'll improve your sled and shift your focus away from what YMC is not doing ... maybe even long enough for YMC to actually come up with something we can get excited about.
Wasn't 2014 supposed to be the YMC deadline? Promises promises.
It's high time we accept that YMC won't be delivering anything new anytime soon. The sooner we do, the sooner we can get on with enjoying what we have in our current sleds.
Plus, there are plenty of aftermarket products available to make your sled better. If you have the coin for a new sled, but don't want to buy one from another OEM, spend some of it with the sponsors on this site. It'll improve your sled and shift your focus away from what YMC is not doing ... maybe even long enough for YMC to actually come up with something we can get excited about.
09nytro
TY 4 Stroke God
How long did polaris make the wedge chassis from what late 70's to 97, 98 and no body bit$$ about that and people still bought them ....why because they worked and worked well and handled good ....I still have one a 97 RXL starts every time in two pulls..just saying
Excellent performance, ride and handling, light weight, durable suspension components is why Polaris had no reason to change the Indy. Thing is, compared to Yamaha, they made improvements to the Indy every year that made it even better. They came out with different rear skids, revised the IFS travel and geometry, came out with different engines and changed the body style with a different cowling in '88 and different body work on the later models. The best thing was most of these improvements were backwards compatible to the older sleds.
It is unfortunate that Yamaha does not follow the same philosophy.
It is unfortunate that Yamaha does not follow the same philosophy.
whitedust1
TY 4 Stroke God
09nytro said:
Exactly.... Yamaha is making the same marketing mistakes as Polaris made in late 90s then the awful Fusion in 05 which was an engineering disaster. Polaris slid from #1 to 3 or 4 in market position in those years & is currently in a very close fight for #2 position with AC during 2012 but AC ahead. Polaris lost market position because their engineering group was a dull blade at best & is making a comeback with their new pro ride platform that took forever to be released. Yamaha has a different problem with high manufacturing costs that result in very high MSRP for same old same old product there is no profitabilty to retool for a new platform in a shrinking overall market. The Polaris problem was dumb engineering not so at Yamaha. I think Yamaha engineering has new platforms & engines good to go but no money to retool because the market lacks conviction to buy expensive sleds for a 90 day use toy. So what does Yamaha need to do? IMO partner with AC to build sleds for them simular to SRT 20, or cut a deal with AC to use Yamaha 4s engines & stop building turnkey sleds or share tech between companies & find a middle ground that is profitable for both companies. It is impossible for Yamaha to stay in turnkey sled biz without a new platform at premium prices as other OEMs pass them by with better technology better bang for the buck. It is not a bright future at Yamaha snowmobile division unless they find a better & different way to compete at much more competitive prices. Heck we all know this including Yamaha really nothing new here just hope that AC & Yamaha can find away to have an OEM relationship that brings better sleds to the world.
09nytro
TY 4 Stroke God
Now ...how do you know its not a bright future at yamaha...it mit be right on track for all we know.....then ham all new line up light good handling ...you never know with yamaha we have be here before
whitedust1
TY 4 Stroke God
09nytro said:
Being #4 at 8-12% of the 2012 market with the highest MSRP is not a bright future. lol Open your eyes to the facts & understand why we get nothing new....takes money. No 2013 products to generate big bucks = no new products in the near future = Catch 22 no win with current methods so change your ways or die. Simple as that in all biz. Right now you would be dreaming to think Yamaha is going to slam a huge investement with no ROI in a shrinking market. Yamaha would never do such a thing....... better to just build engines & sell to AC which makes sense & makes money. Show me the money & good things happen.
09nytro
TY 4 Stroke God
If I was yamaha I would buy out AC
But really I don't see them (as in yamaha) going anywhere anytime soon they will be making sleds for along time
But really I don't see them (as in yamaha) going anywhere anytime soon they will be making sleds for along time
hmmm might be different in the states but in sweden Yamaha is not that expensive :S Skidoo and Arctic is way more expensive. i bought a yamaha becouse I know what i will get(no problems!)
whitedust1
TY 4 Stroke God
09nytro said:
KISS method.... Much less expensive to retool so AC buy out will never happen snowmobiles just dust in wind to Yamaha more of a PITA for them. OEM contract is the way to go just an agreement like SRT 20 or ink a deal to be 4s engine supplier to AC would be very doable & profitable for both.
Off Trail Mike
Gone Riding!
Snowmobiles today, bikes tomorrow, generators the day after that.
I fully agree Yamaha doesn't have their heart in sleds. The Yen/$ isn't helping, nor is global warming...or whatever you blame our shorter winters on and their effect on declining sales. But its not going to stop at sleds. The competitive issues exist everywhere, and if you are a self proclaimed "engine builder" better figure out a way to get your engines into MORE equipment. The more difficult the application, the more you learn.
To me joining forces with a North American manufacturer is a great way to get back in the game. I have always said you need to build where your market is. BMW, Hyundai, Honda, Toyota and many more have been doing it in North America for years. Some partnered, some struck out on their own.
Would I buy a Yami powered AC? Absolutely. Sled buyers more than almost any other form of motorsports understand the importance of reliablity and power in engines. Simply put, snowmobiles have a brutal engine life cycle. If Yamaha has proven to the snowmobiling public just how good their engines are, it is a HUGE selling point for any other manufacturer wanting to use their technology.
Can't be good at everything....just ask General Motors or Chrysler...
OTM
I fully agree Yamaha doesn't have their heart in sleds. The Yen/$ isn't helping, nor is global warming...or whatever you blame our shorter winters on and their effect on declining sales. But its not going to stop at sleds. The competitive issues exist everywhere, and if you are a self proclaimed "engine builder" better figure out a way to get your engines into MORE equipment. The more difficult the application, the more you learn.
To me joining forces with a North American manufacturer is a great way to get back in the game. I have always said you need to build where your market is. BMW, Hyundai, Honda, Toyota and many more have been doing it in North America for years. Some partnered, some struck out on their own.
Would I buy a Yami powered AC? Absolutely. Sled buyers more than almost any other form of motorsports understand the importance of reliablity and power in engines. Simply put, snowmobiles have a brutal engine life cycle. If Yamaha has proven to the snowmobiling public just how good their engines are, it is a HUGE selling point for any other manufacturer wanting to use their technology.
Can't be good at everything....just ask General Motors or Chrysler...
OTM
spwild47
Newbie
- Joined
- May 14, 2011
- Messages
- 6
Easy on the "Global Warming"
Global temperatures have cooled since about 2008 despite Al Gores Hockeystick projections, Even with CO2 levels continuing to rise...more holes than Swiss cheese in global warming THEORY..the agenda has accomplished a few things though..caused emissions standards that led to the end of 2 strokes...
Note the terminology change from "Global Warming" to "Climate Change".. Can't Val it warming when it's actually cooling..read a few months of posts on this blog and you will see what I mean...
http://wattsupwiththat.com/
Global temperatures have cooled since about 2008 despite Al Gores Hockeystick projections, Even with CO2 levels continuing to rise...more holes than Swiss cheese in global warming THEORY..the agenda has accomplished a few things though..caused emissions standards that led to the end of 2 strokes...
Note the terminology change from "Global Warming" to "Climate Change".. Can't Val it warming when it's actually cooling..read a few months of posts on this blog and you will see what I mean...
http://wattsupwiththat.com/
Title it any way you want the winters are shorter and its killing OEMs and businesses alike. I wish something big would happen but is there enough of a return to the manufacturer. Cat sold big time last year but give a bunch back in recalls and overall pissing there core customers off in doing so. I hope Yamaha doesnt rush anything to that extreme.
