Looking for input, code 46, battery not charging.

[MrChetStuart]

The backstory:

Last week I was riding my 09 Nytro XTX, have 12,500mi on the sled. First real ride of the season, one short 40 miler around home the week prior, no issues then. Sled started fine in the morning, about 25 miles into the ride, I see the yellow light flashing, accompanied by code 46 on the display, which I was not familiar with at the time. Pull off the trail, as do my buddies. Jump online quick, see that 46 is the ECU not happy with the voltage/current/power state that's going on. Check batt connections, do a general look over, everything seems fine. Turn the key on, fuel pump cycles & display is on, turn the key to start and the starter won't turn over much at all. Jumped it to get it started, headed to a dealer about 45 minutes up the trail. They checked some things over (fuses, connections, Ohm tested the stator, swapped out regulator with one they had on hand), couldn't find the issue. I pulled my Yamaheater out thinking maybe that fried, as my hand warmers didn't work/indicators weren't available on route to the dealer, but as I later found out, that doesn't seem to have anything to do with the issue. They stuck a new battery in it, did some more readings with various other things disconnected, were only getting about 12.6v at the battery while running. They said that there's still something causing a drain someplace, but at that point in time that was all they could do without tearing it apart, and I didn't want to hang out there all day, so we called that good enough & hit the trail again. About an hour later, same thing - code 46. Limped back to the trailer, by the time we got there, my HIDs were starting to flicker when stopping at intersections unless I kept the RPMs a bit higher than idle.

Testing back at home, so far:

I pulled and charged the new battery when we got back last week, reads 12.7 volts after charging & then sitting overnight. Yesterday, sled started & runs fine with the fresh battery. I ohm tested the stator with my basic multi-meter, and all coils test at .3 Ohms. It idle, the stator coils read 24v, 25.2v & 25.2v and at ~5000RPM they read 75.5v, 86.5v & 86.5v, which seems to me is an indication that something's wrong with it, as I was under the impression that each reading should be nearly identical on a good stator. The regulator reads about 14.5v regardless of RPM though. I didn't voltage test at the battery, main fuse, or elsewhere at that point because I wanted to top the battery off and go at it again today with a fresh charge, nor did I inspect wiring harnesses at that point either.

This morning, I'm brushing up on info before I head back out to the shop, and I see another suggested test is to check to see if the stator has any reading while going from a coil to ground. Using the mounting tab (cleaned up with a wire brush) where the regular mounts as my ground, each coil (3 white wires at the connector leading into the rectifier/regulator) does have an ohm reading to ground (.3, .4 & .4 ohms).

So, at this point, even though I didn't do the other tests/cable inspection that I planned for today, I believe that I've got a shorted/fried stator issue on my hands given the readings that I took. If anyone has any input, to confirm my thinking, correct a mistake I made, offer something that I missed, or whatever, I'd really appreciate it. Many thanks!

 

[MrSled]

The backstory:

Last week I was riding my 09 Nytro XTX, have 12,500mi on the sled. First real ride of the season, one short 40 miler around home the week prior, no issues then. Sled started fine in the morning, about 25 miles into the ride, I see the yellow light flashing, accompanied by code 46 on the display, which I was not familiar with at the time. Pull off the trail, as do my buddies. Jump online quick, see that 46 is the ECU not happy with the voltage/current/power state that's going on. Check batt connections, do a general look over, everything seems fine. Turn the key on, fuel pump cycles & display is on, turn the key to start and the starter won't turn over much at all. Jumped it to get it started, headed to a dealer about 45 minutes up the trail. They checked some things over (fuses, connections, Ohm tested the stator, swapped out regulator with one they had on hand), couldn't find the issue. I pulled my Yamaheater out thinking maybe that fried, as my hand warmers didn't work/indicators weren't available on route to the dealer, but as I later found out, that doesn't seem to have anything to do with the issue. They stuck a new battery in it, did some more readings with various other things disconnected, were only getting about 12.6v at the battery while running. They said that there's still something causing a drain someplace, but at that point in time that was all they could do without tearing it apart, and I didn't want to hang out there all day, so we called that good enough & hit the trail again. About an hour later, same thing - code 46. Limped back to the trailer, by the time we got there, my HIDs were starting to flicker when stopping at intersections unless I kept the RPMs a bit higher than idle.

Testing back at home, so far:

I pulled and charged the new battery when we got back last week, reads 12.7 volts after charging & then sitting overnight. Yesterday, sled started & runs fine with the fresh battery. I ohm tested the stator with my basic multi-meter, and all coils test at .3 Ohms. It idle, the stator coils read 24v, 25.2v & 25.2v and at ~5000RPM they read 75.5v, 86.5v & 86.5v, which seems to me is an indication that something's wrong with it, as I was under the impression that each reading should be nearly identical on a good stator. The regulator reads about 14.5v regardless of RPM though. I didn't voltage test at the battery, main fuse, or elsewhere at that point because I wanted to top the battery off and go at it again today with a fresh charge, nor did I inspect wiring harnesses at that point either.

This morning, I'm brushing up on info before I head back out to the shop, and I see another suggested test is to check to see if the stator has any reading while going from a coil to ground. Using the mounting tab (cleaned up with a wire brush) where the regular mounts as my ground, each coil (3 white wires at the connector leading into the rectifier/regulator) does have an ohm reading to ground (.3, .4 & .4 ohms).

So, at this point, even though I didn't do the other tests/cable inspection that I planned for today, I believe that I've got a shorted/fried stator issue on my hands given the readings that I took. If anyone has any input, to confirm my thinking, correct a mistake I made, offer something that I missed, or whatever, I'd really appreciate it. Many thanks!

I had a 2009 Nytro XTX that the harness rubbed thru under the bars and above the fuel tank.. have you pulled that back just to double check?

 

[MrChetStuart]

I had a 2009 Nytro XTX that the harness rubbed thru under the bars and above the fuel tank.. have you pulled that back just to double check?

Thanks for your reply. As I mentioned, I didn't inspect wiring harnesses yet. I will absolutely take an extra few hours and trace the various harnesses and see if there's any damage just to be sure, regardless of whatever else I do. I've read about a couple of possible problem areas where chafing happens sometimes, will give those extra attention.

Regarding the stator readings, I should NOT be getting an ohm reading to ground under any circumstances, correct? That, in and of itself, puts a stator defect/failure as my #1 candidate for the problem that I'm having, right?

 

[MrSled]

Thanks for your reply. As I mentioned, I didn't inspect wiring harnesses yet. I will absolutely take an extra few hours and trace the various harnesses and see if there's any damage just to be sure, regardless of whatever else I do. I've read about a couple of possible problem areas where chafing happens sometimes, will give those extra attention.

Regarding the stator readings, I should NOT be getting an ohm reading to ground under any circumstances, correct? That, in and of itself, puts a stator defect/failure as my #1 candidate for the problem that I'm having, right?

Should have zero ohms.. or solid ground.

 

[Hooray!]

I am troubleshooting mine now that I am close to complete on rebuild, hoping not a real issue. Battery was dead (3 years old) so bought new one, I thought maybe the new battery was the issue... during track alignment first start fine, adjust track, second start fine, adjust track, third start "click" only of the starter solenoid. Like a low battery voltage. New AGM battery so surprised, plugged in battery tender, ten minutes showed green, started right up... Had battery checked and CCA on new battery was 510 vs 310 as printed on battery label; Pep Boys gave me a new one (different brand) no issues (they are great) and I bought some dielectric grease. Will check Friday and lube things up.... Hope not a stator, starts nice so think it is a relay - connector issue but reading starting issues threads is ominous.

 

[MrChetStuart]

I am troubleshooting mine now that I am close to complete on rebuild, hoping not a real issue. Battery was dead (3 years old) so bought new one, I thought maybe the new battery was the issue... during track alignment first start fine, adjust track, second start fine, adjust track, third start "click" only of the starter solenoid. Like a low battery voltage. New AGM battery so surprised, plugged in battery tender, ten minutes showed green, started right up... Had battery checked and CCA on new battery was 510 vs 310 as printed on battery label; Pep Boys gave me a new one (different brand) no issues (they are great) and I bought some dielectric grease. Will check Friday and lube things up.... Hope not a stator, starts nice so think it is a relay - connector issue but reading starting issues threads is ominous.

A 10 minute battery tender top off says that your battery was already charged, and if it started right up after that, then your starter relay is the most likely culprit. After a couple of seasons of random starting issues, a new relay on my XTX solved similar random issues like that for me a couple seasons ago.

 

[Hooray!]

Thanks Mr., good to hear a relay vs. starter (or worse). After two starts, third, only a click but topped off in 10 min, started fine, strange... could be a sticky relay I guess. I want reliability on the trail, would not be good to hear that "click" when 100 miles into the woods! I'll pick up a relay, I also picked up dielectric grease and will hit the socket with that too as well as try the new replacement battery.

 

[MrChetStuart]

Here's where I'm at with this - the stator had continuity to ground, pulled the side cover off, and visually confirmed a slightly cooked stator:

20171230_114420

• MrChetStuart
• Jan 2, 2018

2009 Nytro XTX, fried stator @ 12,500 miles.

20171230_114436

• MrChetStuart
• Jan 2, 2018

2009 Nytro XTX, fried stator @ 12,500 miles. Close up shot.

So, before I reassemble, there's a couple of questions that I have:

First, I'm inclined to use high temperature (450 degree rated) medium strength (blue) thread locker rather than the regular blue thread locker that I use for most of the other fasteners around the sled. Is that a decent thought? I don't really know how hot that oil gets, but really don't want those fasteners to let loose, and red thread locker seems like overkill (and the fasteners didn't take a whole lot of effort to break loose when I disassembled).

Second, when I took the side cover off, the starter clutch idle gear & idle gear shaft came along for the ride before sort of falling out of place and I didn't get a good look at how it was sitting in there. The shop manual doesn't really specify, but it doesn't look like there's any other way to position those parts than how I've got them in the following pictures - is this the correct placement of these parts?

20180102_170207

• MrChetStuart
• Jan 2, 2018

Starter clutch idle gear.

20180102_170252

• MrChetStuart
• Jan 2, 2018

Starter clutch idle gear.

Thanks again for any assistance. I know everyone would rather be riding or working on their own stuff, so I appreciate anyone taking a minute to offer insights.

 

[Hooray!]

What happened to a good old fashioned starter mounted outside the engine! Nuts you have to remove the side cover and expose a naked starter assembly... oh well.

 

[Litre1000]

What happened to a good old fashioned starter mounted outside the engine! Nuts you have to remove the side cover and expose a naked starter assembly... oh well.

Here's where I'm at with this - the stator had continuity to ground, pulled the side cover off, and visually confirmed a slightly cooked stator:

20171230_114420

• MrChetStuart
• Jan 2, 2018

2009 Nytro XTX, fried stator @ 12,500 miles.

20171230_114436

• MrChetStuart
• Jan 2, 2018

2009 Nytro XTX, fried stator @ 12,500 miles. Close up shot.

So, before I reassemble, there's a couple of questions that I have:

First, I'm inclined to use high temperature (450 degree rated) medium strength (blue) thread locker rather than the regular blue thread locker that I use for most of the other fasteners around the sled. Is that a decent thought? I don't really know how hot that oil gets, but really don't want those fasteners to let loose, and red thread locker seems like overkill (and the fasteners didn't take a whole lot of effort to break loose when I disassembled).

Second, when I took the side cover off, the starter clutch idle gear & idle gear shaft came along for the ride before sort of falling out of place and I didn't get a good look at how it was sitting in there. The shop manual doesn't really specify, but it doesn't look like there's any other way to position those parts than how I've got them in the following pictures - is this the correct placement of these parts?

20180102_170207

• MrChetStuart
• Jan 2, 2018

Starter clutch idle gear.

20180102_170252

• MrChetStuart
• Jan 2, 2018

Starter clutch idle gear.

Thanks again for any assistance. I know everyone would rather be riding or working on their own stuff, so I appreciate anyone taking a minute to offer insights.

Any updates on how your sled turned out...?