New 2017 Yamaha Sleds...

[Vilas]

I'm thinking a two stroke is coming. The market clearly wants 2 strokes and if Yamaha wants to gain any significant market share they have to have one. The only thing stopping them could be a bruised ego that their 4 stroke plan didn't win out. my question is whether or not they will make one for arctic cat as well. In addition they will have a factory turbo engine that will be in both Yamaha and cat sleds. They spent big bucks modifying the 1049 to get it ready for a factory turbo in my opinion. I think that they will leave new chassis development primarily to cat and focus on engines. The apex won't change much, little things here and there. I see a new model (sidewinder) in pro cross chassis with 800cc 2 stroke Yamaha engine. I have no connections to anybody, these are just guesses.

 

[actionjack]

I'm thinking a two stroke is coming. The market clearly wants 2 strokes and if Yamaha wants to gain any significant market share they have to have one. The only thing stopping them could be a bruised ego that their 4 stroke plan didn't win out. my question is whether or not they will make one for arctic cat as well. In addition they will have a factory turbo engine that will be in both Yamaha and cat sleds. They spent big bucks modifying the 1049 to get it ready for a factory turbo in my opinion. I think that they will leave new chassis development primarily to cat and focus on engines. The apex won't change much, little things here and there. I see a new model (sidewinder) in pro cross chassis with 800cc 2 stroke Yamaha engine. I have no connections to anybody, these are just guesses.

Parts of your post are very plausible but I for one have zero desire for another two stroke and quite the contrary I think Yamaha is the one who drug the industry successfully with them judging by the proliferation of other four stroke sled motors from other manufacturers.

Oh I am not saying there is no interest in a 2S. I am saying the 4S lineup was a success by virtue of home many others there are in the market now. I definitely think there will be 2S Yamaha motor in A Cat sled but I'm not interested.

And to me when my dealer tells me they sold numerous vipers and literally ONE 16 apex somethings got to happen to the apex otherwise there is little reason for them to build them.

 

[northern srx]

From the Snowtrax interview, the individuals stated that on the 2 stroke side of the business they are "competitors" and with the success of the AC 600 2 stroke motor I can't see them (AC) turning to Yamaha to supply motors in that segment... and in order to "compete" you must be in the game! 4 stroke, completely different animal. Very interested to see if Yamaha will build a new 2 stroke motor as there are MANY who would be interested...JM $.02

 

[Vilas]

Parts of your post are very plausible but I for one have zero desire for another two stroke and quite the contrary I think Yamaha is the one who drug the industry successfully with them judging by the proliferation of other four stroke sled motors from other manufacturers.

Oh I am not saying there is no interest in a 2S. I am saying the 4S lineup was a success by virtue of home many others there are in the market now. I definitely think there will be 2S Yamaha motor in A Cat sled but I'm not interested.

And to me when my dealer tells me they sold numerous vipers and literally ONE 16 apex somethings got to happen to the apex otherwise there is little reason for them to build them.

I'm also not interested in a 2 stroke but the majority of the sleeders seem to be. Good point about the apex, I didn't realize sales were quite that bad for those. If the apex isn't relavent anymore in its current form it should get a full makeover. It really is fun to speculate about all this.

 

[vice108]

I think the chance of a Yamaha 2 stroke is just a little less than nil. ;-)

I understand the appeal of the easy weight reduction by going to a two stroke but it's still an out-dated technology (except for some niche products where it still makes more sense). With today's ethanol fuel and the way new 2 stroke sleds have to run soooo lean they are just inherently unreliable and prone to burn-down. I can't envision Yamaha even considering that route. I know I don't want one. I'm spoiled by the reliability and power of my Apex motor.

 

[STAIN]

I'm also not interested in a 2 stroke but the majority of the sleeders seem to be. Good point about the apex, I didn't realize sales were quite that bad for those. If the apex isn't relavent anymore in its current form it should get a full makeover. It really is fun to speculate about all this.

Not sure about where you are but out here you see more and more four strokes. To say there four stroke plan was failure is completely wrong in my book. I would say it was a success. All my friends have switched to 4s and that is something nobody thought they would do 10 years ago. with all the people I ride with I am guessing they are 90% 4s now. 2s in the mountains but on a big groomed trail give me some weight to my sled!!!!

 

[TRUE BLUE SINCE 1980]

Let's assume that on a 440-500 fan or liquid and the 800 liquid. Let's assume realistically that they can sell an equal amount as to what they have been selling currently ( as the market wants them that's reasonable, and not a high bar). Now an 800 would cost 1/5 to produce of a new 4 stroke and would sell for roughly the same money. That means 5x more profit per unit (on motor) than any 4 stroke built. Now let's be realistic again. There is huge!!!! Gap in the entry level sleds. Even a phazer would be to big to stick most 10-12 yr olds on. An all Yamahas are to expensive for anyone to get the bug and say me and my wife are getting 2 of these and see if we like it. They need a small 2 smoke with basic bare bones shock package and light weight so a 100lb woman or child can handle it and come in at the $7500 range. You won't keep them in stock. Then produce a ditch and mtn 800 to add to line up in the same lightweight chassis but put on the good shock pkg (NOT FLOATS!!!!!!) and some bells and whistles. And now you have a 12-14000 sled that gets the die hard and wanna be and show off guys covered you can offer same sled with the 4stroke in it just like cat is doing and then see what ya got and enjoy the income. But get a 440-500 2 stroke in the 60 hp range 600cc 4 stroke (100hp) the current viper motor or its replacement at the 140 hp range the 800 2stroke 160-170 hp and the turbo viper with 190 kit instead of 180 and you have 4 motors to cover 5 diff classes and same as cat procross you use 1 chassis for all of them. Costs are cut way back and everyone has a segment to find a sled in

Ok. It took me along time to go back and find this post. I could not stop thinking of it. There is a lot of content here. This seems to be the way AC does sleds. When I go on their web site and pretend to pick a sled I would buy. My head spins ! There are so many choices With Brand Y your choices are narrowed just by the way you ride Then you just have to hope the dealer has it in Blue.
On e last thing. With the Fourth year of the Viper on the way will the CLUTCHING issue be addressed. The guy in the board room who has the clutch button needs a few days off. ...... SORRY

 

[srx700lt]

I would assume that this year was the last year with the Nytro engine since it has been changed with weaker rods etc, meaning it has been adapted to another purpose in the marine market, most likely as an outboard engine, they don't spin at the same high revs as the sled engine so weaker rods is not a problem.

And since the new FXR or what the name of the new side by side is called I can only hope that the engine from it will find it's way to a new sled, a sled with a new clutching system that can handle the engines revs. And that is obviously in a all new chassis that is light and rigid. And while they are at it I hope they go all the way in weight reduction so that we finally has a mean lightweight sled with Yamahas legendary 4s durability. One can only hope.

 

[ntm_08]

I would assume that this year was the last year with the Nytro engine since it has been changed with weaker rods etc, meaning it has been adapted to another purpose in the marine market, most likely as an outboard engine, they don't spin at the same high revs as the sled engine so weaker rods is not a problem.

And since the new FXR or what the name of the new side by side is called I can only hope that the engine from it will find it's way to a new sled, a sled with a new clutching system that can handle the engines revs. And that is obviously in a all new chassis that is light and rigid. And while they are at it I hope they go all the way in weight reduction so that we finally has a mean lightweight sled with Yamahas legendary 4s durability. One can only hope.

Absolutely everything you wrote is wrong....

Same engine in all segments. Viper, YXZ and Wave runners. With the Viper running lower RPM`s because the clutch limits it to MAX 9000rpm

 

[stevewithOCD]

A lot of guys keep saying that Yamaha NEEDS a 2-smoker & I agree to keep up with the "off trail" crowd, this is true. BUT, on the flip side, Polaris NEEDS to get a 4-stroke because they are missing a HUGE market themselves. Some of us don't want a 2-stroke. I'm one of these people. I'm looking new next year & I'm 95% sure it will be a 4-stroke unless something OUTRAGEOUS comes...

 

[stevewithOCD]

Some in this forum state that Yamaha FAILED with their 4-strokes. Well ask Searge on this site that has about 100,000 trouble free miles...NO 2-stroke could possibly handle what he does every year...

 

[Sasquatch]

With all this speculation about Cat building all of Yamaha's sleds, I think if the Apex goes and or if Cat builds it I see no reason to buy a Yamaha. Yamaha's flagship built by a different company is sacrilegious to say the least! Yamaha is so unique because it builds a NA performance 4 Stroke that can stay with the competitions turbo 4 stroke and the 2 Strokes. That is what would be lost and very sad to see go! It would just be one more Yamaha powered Cat!

Cats 9000 turbo is a proven motor and with all the first few years issues worked out it is a nice sled. Even if Cat builds an Apex powered sled why buy the Yami version? Cat will have a version that is the same!

My thought is say Cat builds a 120 hp 4 stroke a 130hp 4S, add a 150hp 4S and top off with a 180hp 4S. Now speculation is they will drop the 120 and 180hp twin 4S and replace the big power with the Yami Turbo powered 4S. Maybe but Cat is Still selling twin turbos and the Cat guys love em, so I don't see them happily jumping to Yamaha power that is so much harder and much more expensive to crank the power up. Just not happening!

If Yamaha does not build the chassis any more then I see Yamaha sleds going the way of the Do-Do bird! There will be three sled manufacture's only as some kind of a waste of name thing going on with the Catamaha's makes little sense and will be seen for what it is!

Now add that Ski-Doo is rumored to build a turbo 4stroke in the 175 to 200hp (the long awaited SS model) range and if Yamaha has put its eggs in the Cat basket and Cat builds a 180hp 4stroke. Add to that Polaris is again going to make turbo 4 strokes to compete with the big HP. Then Yamaha is is out the door if its only answer is a 130hp motor with bad rods that is only available from Cat with an aftermarket turbo that has no warranty! At least the Apex in its current form has a chance of beating all of the above across the lake. Long FTR's seem to be not advised with a turbo. Short run sleds! Kinda like two strokes! Bahh! 2 Strokes suck!

I'm still thinking Yamaha will build a new chassis to accept the triple and the four. If it doesn't then why buy a 7/8 Cat from Yamaha? The Cat 9000 is cheaper then the Viper after you buy the aftermarket turbo. Then add that the center of gravity is lower so the handling is better and the weight according to Arctic Chat is less!

I really have to say when I can no longer buy an Yamaha Apex I can see myself switching back to where I came from in 2003 or where I came from earlier then that! SS sounds so nice!

 

[Bpatch50]

You really want to see them continuing with the apex chassis? I can't remember a chassis so in need of replacing. I'm all for the Cat / Yami partnership as long as we see Yami fit and finish in the next model.

If you've had faith in Yami in the past, have faith in their decision to partner with Cat. We could see some amazing products in the next few years.

 

[fxnytrortxkid]

Ok. It took me along time to go back and find this post. I could not stop thinking of it. There is a lot of content here. This seems to be the way AC does sleds. When I go on their web site and pretend to pick a sled I would buy. My head spins ! There are so many choices With Brand Y your choices are narrowed just by the way you ride Then you just have to hope the dealer has it in Blue.
On e last thing. With the Fourth year of the Viper on the way will the CLUTCHING issue be addressed. The guy in the board room who has the clutch button needs a few days off. ...... SORRY

Yes the secondary clutch buttons are shot, still can't believe rollers aren't the standard yet. But my line up if I was a manufacture and would hope Yamaha would use (as my over worded post suggested)
1)440-500 fan (60hp) so it's very light and very cheap.
2)A phazer (100hp) 4 stroke.
3)Then a replacement for the nytro/viper with the new technology Yamaha has (145hp),
4)A good 800 (170hp) direct injected 2smoke that puts them back in business in mtn and ditch world and
5)A new apex, 3 or 4 cyl (185hp) I don't think matters.
But a turbo version of the 600 class motor won't work. And a 2 stroke and 4 stroke in every catagory makes to high of a cost structure and to many choices that dilute the sales. 2smoke at bottom for cheap an light and top for the light weight performance sled then rest as reliable competitvly light weight 4 strokes.

 

[DranttelSS]

Then they went bankrupt.....

Still a sore subject for us former Scorpion dealers


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