New 2017 Yamaha Sleds...

[TRUE BLUE SINCE 1980]

Yes the secondary clutch buttons are shot, still can't believe rollers aren't the standard yet. But my line up if I was a manufacture and would hope Yamaha would use (as my over worded post suggested)
1)440-500 fan (60hp) so it's very light and very cheap.
2)A phazer (100hp) 4 stroke.
3)Then a replacement for the nytro/viper with the new technology Yamaha has (145hp),
4)A good 800 (170hp) direct injected 2smoke that puts them back in business in mtn and ditch world and
5)A new apex, 3 or 4 cyl (185hp) I don't think matters.
But a turbo version of the 600 class motor won't work. And a 2 stroke and 4 stroke in every catagory makes to high of a cost structure and to many choices that dilute the sales. 2smoke at bottom for cheap an light and top for the light weight performance sled then rest as reliable competitvly light weight 4 strokes.

What I was referring to was the "finger on the Button / Asleep at the Switch" I guess it could also mean clutch Parts also!

 

[T-Bone]

Yamaha needs to make 2 strokes. It is simple. You can not ignore 80% of the market. Total 4-stroke sales make up about 20% of all sled sales. Yamaha has been making the best 4-stroke sleds in the market for the last decade and that has resulted in a 10% market share. Thats not enough for the bean counters at Yamaha to invest in sled development. Yamaha 4-strokes have not failed. The Yamaha strategy of 4-stroke only sleds and completely abandoning the 2-stroke sleds was the mistake. Not many of us on here want to go back to the 2-Stroke but there are plenty of people out there who would buy a Yamaha built 2-stroke sled. That leads to more profits for Yamaha and better 4-strokes for us. Its time for Yamaha to swallow some pride and end the stubbornness of proving they can be successful building only 4-strokes.

 

[blueironranger]

Yamaha needs to make 2 strokes. It is simple. You can not ignore 80% of the market. Total 4-stroke sales make up about 20% of all sled sales. Yamaha has been making the best 4-stroke sleds in the market for the last decade and that has resulted in a 10% market share. Thats not enough for the bean counters at Yamaha to invest in sled development. Yamaha 4-strokes have not failed. The Yamaha strategy of 4-stroke only sleds and completely abandoning the 2-stroke sleds was the mistake. Not many of us on here want to go back to the 2-Stroke but there are plenty of people out there who would buy a Yamaha built 2-stroke sled. That leads to more profits for Yamaha and better 4-strokes for us. Its time for Yamaha to swallow some pride and end the stubbornness of proving they can be successful building only 4-strokes.

Yamaha kinda did shoot themselfs in the foot by going all 4 stroke. I personally know many 4 stroke owners, both Yamaha and Doo, that feel no need to purchase a new sled every 2-3 year because of "ticking time bomb" syndrome. These same guys would dump there 2 strokes every 2-3 years even if they bought the same chassis again just to avoid engine issues. Yamaha really needs a "WOW" to pry "high mileage" sleds away from current owners and the Viper has seemed to do that to some degree, now they need a "WOW" in other categories. I'd personally like to see one in the 100hp twin range at a realistic 450# but I just don't see that coming.

 

[TRUE BLUE SINCE 1980]

Yamaha needs to make 2 strokes. It is simple. You can not ignore 80% of the market. Total 4-stroke sales make up about 20% of all sled sales. Yamaha has been making the best 4-stroke sleds in the market for the last decade and that has resulted in a 10% market share. Thats not enough for the bean counters at Yamaha to invest in sled development. Yamaha 4-strokes have not failed. The Yamaha strategy of 4-stroke only sleds and completely abandoning the 2-stroke sleds was the mistake. Not many of us on here want to go back to the 2-Stroke but there are plenty of people out there who would buy a Yamaha built 2-stroke sled. That leads to more profits for Yamaha and better 4-strokes for us. Its time for Yamaha to swallow some pride and end the stubbornness of proving they can be successful building only 4-strokes.

WELL SAID , You Nailed it right there !!!

 

[4strokeluvr111]

Yamaha needs to make 2 strokes. It is simple. You can not ignore 80% of the market.

Yes you can if it's parts of their Strategic Plan.

 

[gytr done]

CR's back second time this week. He sort of says we were getting on to something on TY. But got side tracked In the comments Yellowknife confermes it He says he will give us more soon.
Great there goes any chance of sleeping for the next twenty some days

The good, bad, or ugly parts of conversations on TY. Does he happen to say?

 

[gytr done]

I thought this looked familiar...

That's the new sled, chrome moly tube chassis engine hangs as stress member? Can't figure out rear end swing arm style prehaps! Get ready to hang of moto gp style!.Y did say expect the unexpected, And CR did mention you guys were on to something here on TY,At the beginning of this postWhich mentioned snobike and then this pic emerged?

 

[RTX]

With all this speculation about Cat building all of Yamaha's sleds, I think if the Apex goes and or if Cat builds it I see no reason to buy a Yamaha. Yamaha's flagship built by a different company is sacrilegious to say the least! Yamaha is so unique because it builds a NA performance 4 Stroke that can stay with the competitions turbo 4 stroke and the 2 Strokes. That is what would be lost and very sad to see go! It would just be one more Yamaha powered Cat!

Cats 9000 turbo is a proven motor and with all the first few years issues worked out it is a nice sled. Even if Cat builds an Apex powered sled why buy the Yami version? Cat will have a version that is the same!

My thought is say Cat builds a 120 hp 4 stroke a 130hp 4S, add a 150hp 4S and top off with a 180hp 4S. Now speculation is they will drop the 120 and 180hp twin 4S and replace the big power with the Yami Turbo powered 4S. Maybe but Cat is Still selling twin turbos and the Cat guys love em, so I don't see them happily jumping to Yamaha power that is so much harder and much more expensive to crank the power up. Just not happening!

If Yamaha does not build the chassis any more then I see Yamaha sleds going the way of the Do-Do bird! There will be three sled manufacture's only as some kind of a waste of name thing going on with the Catamaha's makes little sense and will be seen for what it is!

Now add that Ski-Doo is rumored to build a turbo 4stroke in the 175 to 200hp (the long awaited SS model) range and if Yamaha has put its eggs in the Cat basket and Cat builds a 180hp 4stroke. Add to that Polaris is again going to make turbo 4 strokes to compete with the big HP. Then Yamaha is is out the door if its only answer is a 130hp motor with bad rods that is only available from Cat with an aftermarket turbo that has no warranty! At least the Apex in its current form has a chance of beating all of the above across the lake. Long FTR's seem to be not advised with a turbo. Short run sleds! Kinda like two strokes! Bahh! 2 Strokes suck!

I'm still thinking Yamaha will build a new chassis to accept the triple and the four. If it doesn't then why buy a 7/8 Cat from Yamaha? The Cat 9000 is cheaper then the Viper after you buy the aftermarket turbo. Then add that the center of gravity is lower so the handling is better and the weight according to Arctic Chat is less!

I really have to say when I can no longer buy an Yamaha Apex I can see myself switching back to where I came from in 2003 or where I came from earlier then that! SS sounds so nice!

Your posts always make me laugh.
Your thinking about jumping ship for a sled that dont exist. Lol

 

[RTX]

Yamaha needs to make 2 strokes. It is simple. You can not ignore 80% of the market. Total 4-stroke sales make up about 20% of all sled sales. Yamaha has been making the best 4-stroke sleds in the market for the last decade and that has resulted in a 10% market share. Thats not enough for the bean counters at Yamaha to invest in sled development. Yamaha 4-strokes have not failed. The Yamaha strategy of 4-stroke only sleds and completely abandoning the 2-stroke sleds was the mistake. Not many of us on here want to go back to the 2-Stroke but there are plenty of people out there who would buy a Yamaha built 2-stroke sled. That leads to more profits for Yamaha and better 4-strokes for us. Its time for Yamaha to swallow some pride and end the stubbornness of proving they can be successful building only 4-strokes.

Its not the 4 stroke motors holding yamaha back in the sled sales department.
Its everything else.
Everyone i know says they would love a yamaha motor in their sled.
They just dont want the yamaha ergonomics,chassis,suspension,steering designs, etc etc.
The 4 stroke motors are not the problem its the rest of the sled according to my friends

 

[stevewithOCD]

Well stated T-bone & I agree that Yamaha needs 2-strokes to contend in all areas of this sport, especially with the off trail category growing at a huge rate. I also agree with 20% of market is 4-stroke, but that # is slightly skewed. 20% is 4-strokes sold not indicative of what people WANT. For example this # could be as much as 40%. Hear me out. Some people are very brand dedicated(I'm not one). If Polaris had a good 4-stroke then that alone would bring that 20% to 30%. If ALL 4 brands had different 4-strokes for different categories, then the % would go even higher. I know of at least 4 Doo boys that if the 1200 had 150 HP they would jump tomorrow. I know 3 Polaris guys that would jump today. I can name at least 10 guys buying 100 to 125 Hp four strokes as soon as they get some cash( and SNOW!). Actually Doo has embraced the 4-stroke market the most with 600 & 900 ACE & 1200. Maybe that's why Doo is #1 in sales over Polaris because they've embraced both 2 & 4-strokes. If Polaris comes out with good 4-strokes & Doo pumps up that 1200, I believe the 4-stroke sales will be over 40%...IF is a HUGE word...

 

[pdiddy]

If you go back and look at the snake swirls in the sand pic from the blog, you'll also notice they are offset - at a diagonal!

 

[T-Bone]

Its not the 4 stroke motors holding yamaha back in the sled sales department.
Its everything else.
Everyone i know says they would love a yamaha motor in their sled.
They just dont want the yamaha ergonomics,chassis,suspension,steering designs, etc etc.
The 4 stroke motors are not the problem its the rest of the sled according to my friends

Yeah, definitely not the 4-stroke engines holding them back. Simply not selling enough of them.

 

[T-Bone]

Well stated T-bone & I agree that Yamaha needs 2-strokes to contend in all areas of this sport, especially with the off trail category growing at a huge rate. I also agree with 20% of market is 4-stroke, but that # is slightly skewed. 20% is 4-strokes sold not indicative of what people WANT. For example this # could be as much as 40%. Hear me out. Some people are very brand dedicated(I'm not one). If Polaris had a good 4-stroke then that alone would bring that 20% to 30%. If ALL 4 brands had different 4-strokes for different categories, then the % would go even higher. I know of at least 4 Doo boys that if the 1200 had 150 HP they would jump tomorrow. I know 3 Polaris guys that would jump today. I can name at least 10 guys buying 100 to 125 Hp four strokes as soon as they get some cash( and SNOW!). Actually Doo has embraced the 4-stroke market the most with 600 & 900 ACE & 1200. Maybe that's why Doo is #1 in sales over Polaris because they've embraced both 2 & 4-strokes. If Polaris comes out with good 4-strokes & Doo pumps up that 1200, I believe the 4-stroke sales will be over 40%...IF is a HUGE word...

I agree. The more 4-stroke offerings by all brands would result in greater 4-stroke sales overall and thus an increase in sales percentage. I just don't get why Yamaha thought they had to choose one or the other (4-stroke vs 2-stroke) when there is no reason they could have both.

 

[petey_sx700]

My guess in the new R1 motor in a new chasis from Japan at around 180 horse? Would love to see a 900 triple 2smoke in Cat chasis. As I believe Yamaha is behind cats 600 di motor. Add a cylinder create 170 horse and get 15 mpg would be mean!

 

[minks_698]

In 97 they replaced almost their entire lineup which was long overdue. It's time again. Phazer is unchanged from 07, vector has an 06 body style, apex chassis is a tweaked 03 rx1, the apex motor has roots back to the 98 R1, there are newer more powerful options already developed. Nytro and viper motor last saw performance updates in 08. Even our newest option viper is a 12 chassis with a 08 motor that needs clutching to beat a 600 2stroke. Yamaha the time is now!