New 2017 Yamaha Sleds...

[journeyman]

Lol, is there isn't any significant snow and cold weather like real soon. Yamaha might just release there exit from snowmobiling.

That could go for all 4 manufactures.

 

[Sasquatch]

2017 sled thread here guys, keep it in the fantasy realm ok! I don't want to hear about the tunnel thing
Just kidding happy holidays !

Really its about 2017 sleds for and against Yamaha design or Cat design!

 

[4StrokeAddict]

Really its about 2017 sleds for and against Yamaha design or Cat design!

Exactly. Two different companies, two very different designs and two different schools of thought. Many knock the partnership, but I believe there were a lot of shared lessons that both companies can take away and improve their sleds for 2017. We are discussing what we want to see on 2017 sleds via what we have to to look at and have experienced. There are things from both sleds that are good and some that aren't so good. Though we don't see eye to eye, we expressed the good and bad of rear exit exhaust. Anyone want to discuss clutching or ride position?

 

[4strokeluvr111]

Seat height on the 2014 Vector LTX is 3" too low and the foam is too mushy. The 2015 sled felt the same (to me) and are the 2016's this way? What will the do for 2017?

 

[4StrokeAddict]

The seat and riding position of the viper is one of the key features that sold me. Than I sat on a mountain viper and that seat is even better than mine. Wish I had the mountain viper seat. This is one of the things I hope for on a pure yamaha...

 

[gytr done]

That could go for all 4 manufactures.

Actually Yamaha has the least invested in the snowmobile biz far less than the other three. Being last in sales means you are the first to go in lean times.

 

[gytr done]

Really its about 2017 sleds for and against Yamaha design or Cat design!

No it's not thread title says 2017 Yamaha sleds, doesn't say anything about AC. The diaper is not a Yamaha sled in my opinion it's a bastard child.

 

[gytr done]

Exactly. Two different companies, two very different designs and two different schools of thought. Many knock the partnership, but I believe there were a lot of shared lessons that both companies can take away and improve their sleds for 2017. We are discussing what we want to see on 2017 sleds via what we have to to look at and have experienced. There are things from both sleds that are good and some that aren't so good. Though we don't see eye to eye, we expressed the good and bad of rear exit exhaust. Anyone want to discuss clutching or ride position?

The Japanese companies follow there own philosophy and ideas they could care less about what AC or the general public have to say. How long did Yamaha keep stating that there skis were not an issue, no matter how many complaints they got they did nothing to rectify the issue until they were ready to make the change. japaneses company's move at there pace not at the pace you want them to run at.

 

[gytr done]

Now that AC has team industry clutches, why would I need to by a Yamaha.

 

[yamadoo]

Read this post a few times and as BOTH a Yamaha APEX LOVER - 14k miles -and a VIPER owner and LOVER only 1400 miles I am offended from both parties LOL.

Those of you who think the Vipers have more new sled issues didn't OWN an early APEX.....I did I loved it and got over the few issues( there is an excellent post on this somewhere on here that I read before buying my VIPER).

It all depends on how you ride. Wide open trails and Lakes APEX but tight rough trails VIPER. I can and have enjoyed many days on BOTH. Both do the opposite well just not their strength.

The PERMA GRINN of the 4 cylinder is AWESOME. The ride and handling of the VIPER is AWESOME and the motor grunts well just not the TOP end acceleration only the APEX has. I had a Polaris 800 pipes, clutched etc and it might have taken the APEX in a drag race but not near the fun flipper at high speed.

I know some of you feel bigger and tougher when you slam cats, and their were years they deserved it, but my 15 VIPER is a great ride with its Cat chassis and Yamaha drive train ...........Charley you would miss the power as I do, but y0u would like the day long ride. We will see this February if it snows???????????????????????

 

[super1c]

Read this post a few times and as BOTH a Yamaha APEX LOVER - 14k miles -and a VIPER owner and LOVER only 1400 miles I am offended from both parties LOL.

Those of you who think the Vipers have more new sled issues didn't OWN an early APEX.....I did I loved it and got over the few issues( there is an excellent post on this somewhere on here that I read before buying my VIPER).

It all depends on how you ride. Wide open trails and Lakes APEX but tight rough trails VIPER. I can and have enjoyed many days on BOTH. Both do the opposite well just not their strength.

The PERMA GRINN of the 4 cylinder is AWESOME. The ride and handling of the VIPER is AWESOME and the motor grunts well just not the TOP end acceleration only the APEX has. I had a Polaris 800 pipes, clutched etc and it might have taken the APEX in a drag race but not near the fun flipper at high speed.

I know some of you feel bigger and tougher when you slam cats, and their were years they deserved it, but my 15 VIPER is a great ride with its Cat chassis and Yamaha drive train ...........Charley you would miss the power as I do, but y0u would like the day long ride. We will see this February if it snows???????????????????????

Right on! All sleds have problems and all sleds have there strong points. I woud hope this yamacat deal brings out the strong in both. Ive been riding yamaha's since i could ride and lets be honest, ive had to mod them all to overcome the weak points. And once again you awesome TY guys tear these sleds apart and rebuild them to be the best they can be. In fact most of you here are where i got my info from on the 2 stroke side to make my old vipers the best they can be. By the way this has cost me thousands of dollars over the years on the smoking side and will do the same here for 2017 im sure. As ive said here before go YAMACAT and get me the industry leading sled my money deserves. Not that you apex guys and the "holy grail" of pure yamaha sleds (the apex) are not awesome but just because its pure yamaha does not make it better, TOTALLYAMAHA makes it better. Because thats were a yamaha sled becomes a yamaha sled no matter who's building them!!

 

[4StrokeAddict]

Yamadoo and supe1c,both right on. I agree that both are great sleds. I just hope Yamaha takes the best from the industry as whole and capatilizes on the lessons learned from the cat partnership to give us a modern kick@$$ sled that blows away both the viper and apex. I just don't want to see us get so biased that we can't see the greatness that other manufactures are producing.

 

[Sasquatch]

Read this post a few times and as BOTH a Yamaha APEX LOVER - 14k miles -and a VIPER owner and LOVER only 1400 miles I am offended from both parties LOL.

Those of you who think the Vipers have more new sled issues didn't OWN an early APEX.....I did I loved it and got over the few issues( there is an excellent post on this somewhere on here that I read before buying my VIPER).

It all depends on how you ride. Wide open trails and Lakes APEX but tight rough trails VIPER. I can and have enjoyed many days on BOTH. Both do the opposite well just not their strength.

The PERMA GRINN of the 4 cylinder is AWESOME. The ride and handling of the VIPER is AWESOME and the motor grunts well just not the TOP end acceleration only the APEX has. I had a Polaris 800 pipes, clutched etc and it might have taken the APEX in a drag race but not near the fun flipper at high speed.

I know some of you feel bigger and tougher when you slam cats, and their were years they deserved it, but my 15 VIPER is a great ride with its Cat chassis and Yamaha drive train ...........Charley you would miss the power as I do, but y0u would like the day long ride. We will see this February if it snows???????????????????????

I think of the Apex like a Big ole Dodge Daytona ! Not the quickest of the line but man does it hold the road at speed. Made for the high banks where speed rules. I think of the Viper as the 340 Cuda TA. Breed to be quick and to corner fast, made to race in the twisties. I have a 68 Dodge Monaco C body and I love it for what it is! I once had one up to 130 MPH with a small block! It just floated along as if it was out for a sunday drive! Thats an Apex!

I don't hate the Viper but it is just not my style of sled. Could the Apex be improved upon? Yes but never at a sacrifice of its heritage. To turn a Apex into a Viper would just be an insult! I'm not a fan of a cobbled together chassis with the motor sitting so high. When if it was built for the motor as say a Yamaha chassis with Cat suspension built to drop the motor as low as it would go, not adapt it in where it fits and then have clearance issue's with Jackshaft and 180 degree bends in the exhaust. Not to mention a mildred of other Cat idiosyncrasy's that I'm just not impressed with. I get why people jumped on it, dying for something, anything from Yamaha. Who cares if it is 7/8 Cat 1/8 Yamaha! Its lighter and turns better! Add a turbo go faster! I get it! Thing is though I'm not happy with that, I'm holding out for a Yamaha built chassis with a Cat suspension and an Apex engine! Cause I think Yamaha can do better. I think Yamaha's builds a better sled and that is what I want. If Viper owners take that as I hate Vipers they are wrong. Viper is just not built the way I want it. I'm not settling for a Catamaha, I want a Yamacat at least!

Mark Im quite comfy on my Apex XTX and can still do 2,000 miles in 10 days. Life is good. I ran my Warrior for 18,000 miles and I'll hopefully do that with my Apex only 10,000 more to go so in 3 more years bringing it to 2018 at the earliest or 2019 most likely. Or Buy a used 2016/17!

 

[super1c]

I think of the Apex like a Big ole Dodge Daytona ! Not the quickest of the line but man does it hold the road at speed. Made for the high banks where speed rules. I think of the Viper as the 340 Cuda TA. Breed to be quick and to corner fast, made to race in the twisties. I have a 68 Dodge Monaco C body and I love it for what it is! I once had one up to 130 MPH with a small block! It just floated along as if it was out for a sunday drive! Thats an Apex!

I don't hate the Viper but it is just not my style of sled. Could the Apex be improved upon? Yes but never at a sacrifice of its heritage. To turn a Apex into a Viper would just be an insult! I'm not a fan of a cobbled together chassis with the motor sitting so high. When if it was built for the motor as say a Yamaha chassis with Cat suspension built to drop the motor as low as it would go, not adapt it in where it fits and then have clearance issue's with Jackshaft and 180 degree bends in the exhaust. Not to mention a mildred of other Cat idiosyncrasy's that I'm just not impressed with. I get why people jumped on it, dying for something, anything from Yamaha. Who cares if it is 7/8 Cat 1/8 Yamaha! Its lighter and turns better! Add a turbo go faster! I get it! Thing is though I'm not happy with that, I'm holding out for a Yamaha built chassis with a Cat suspension and an Apex engine! Cause I think Yamaha can do better. I think Yamaha's builds a better sled and that is what I want. If Viper owners take that as I hate Vipers they are wrong. Viper is just not built the way I want it. I'm not settling for a Catamaha, I want a Yamacat at least!

Mark Im quite comfy on my Apex XTX and can still do 2,000 miles in 10 days. Life is good. I ran my Warrior for 18,000 miles and I'll hopefully do that with my Apex only 10,000 more to go so in 3 more years bringing it to 2018 at the earliest or 2019 most likely. Or Buy a used 2016/17!

From what i know the viper will be the only sled in this chassis as per agreement. If the apex engine gets a new body it will be its own design im sure, pure yamaha or yamacat ect... That would be a sled to behold if they could harness that power in a corner to corner long haul sled that rides like a couch, i like couches!!!. Also i did read that even though the cat agreement was not official that chassis was built for the yamaha four stroke nytro motor. Just took longer to finalize agreement then planned. You dont think that engine just happen to fit in that chassis the day they said "I DO" do you?? This was in the works long before the agreement date.

 

[Sasquatch]

From what i know the viper will be the only sled in this chassis as per agreement. If the apex engine gets a new body it will be its own design im sure, pure yamaha or yamacat ect... That would be a sled to behold if they could harness that power in a corner to corner long haul sled that rides like a couch, i like couches!!!. Also i did read that even though the cat agreement was not official that chassis was built for the yamaha four stroke nytro motor. Just took longer to finalize agreement then planned. You dont think that engine just happen to fit in that chassis the day they said "I DO" do you?? This was in the works long before the agreement date.

I love couch's as well and miss my 1000 triple Pantera two up, 172 hp and man did it fly! As far as a corner to corner stable high speed machine goes having both machines in one sled always seems like you have to trade one for the other. Now if they can make an Apex corner better without loosing its high speed stability I'm all for it. I rode the revs and hated them, twitchy piece of crap! Even my 600 ZL Cat which handled really well in the corners lost some of its stability at 90mph. My 1000 Pantera loved speed and would hit way over 100 on the GPS and you could ride with one hand while hitting ruts and drifts at that speed. My XTX pulled off the groomed trail on the lake into the rough and back on at near 100mph and other then a up and down movement never twitched once over the hard drifts it was hitting at an angle. The sled is heavy they say, yep and its stable. What you need to do is follow Stiener on his Apex. That will open your eyes real fast as to how well an Apex can do it all. Maybe part rider but the machine well setup is the key to it all.

Yes I know the chassis was not designed with the Yami motor in mind because the motor does not have the room to fit as low in the chassis as the Cat twin. I also read that Yamaha had to raise the motor crank line higher because of that reason. I also point out that the jackshaft is in the way of the exhaust and as it sits in the chassis the exhaust would be better to be split and run both over and under the jackshaft. Now if the motor was allowed to sit a bit lower this interference would be minimal. They talked about the Viper higher center of gravity compared to the twin cylinder Cat in same chassis. Arctic Chat forums had discussions about it. There where also pictures and writeups in the mags and on the net and in this forum about how high the engine sat in the chassis showing how much air was under it. I looked at the Viper in the showroom and you could see how high it was set up to clear the chassis of the Cat. Just imagine how much better it would handle if they could lower the motor and therefore the center of gravity.