New A/F meter and related race fuel question

[OTIS RX-1]

I just completed the install of an Innovate A/F LC-1 & XD-16.
I'd like to know the following before the first run of the season.
1. A/F ratio at Idle, mid range, wot?
2. Fuel suggestions? See sensor life concern below. I don't mind spending the $$ on good fuel.

I run 12-13# boost. Bender stage 2.
1450' elevation
03-121"
Stock head gasket
stock jets 135
stock pilots
Pitot tube 400
I've always run 50/50 C-12/93...I'm concerned about the lead in C-12 shortening the O2 sensor life.
Long pulls of 1/2 -3/4 mile.
I installed STM billet caps and billet "T's".
I went through some of the reference material but didn't find exactly what I was looking for.

Any help greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
OTIS RX

 

[lakercr]

I just completed the install of an Innovate A/F LC-1 & XD-16.
I'd like to know the following before the first run of the season.
1. A/F ratio at Idle, mid range, wot?
2. Fuel suggestions? See sensor life concern below. I don't mind spending the $$ on good fuel.

I run 12-13# boost. Bender stage 2.
1450' elevation
03-121"
Stock head gasket
stock jets 135
stock pilots
Pitot tube 400
I've always run 50/50 C-12/93...I'm concerned about the lead in C-12 shortening the O2 sensor life.
Long pulls of 1/2 -3/4 mile.
I installed STM billet caps and billet "T's".
I went through some of the reference material but didn't find exactly what I was looking for.

Any help greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
OTIS RX

For A/F:

around 14 for idle is good (13.5-14.1) Cruising A/F when you aren't accelerating can be in this range as well, ideally just a bit lower. Any acceleration from here should send the numbers down into the high 11 - low 12's immediately. No more than 12 for WOT.

I think you're probably safe on fuel, but would suggest you read all of the info. available on the topic and make your own decision.

Your Bosch sensor isn't going to like the race fuel long term. If/when it fails, I'd suggest the NTK.

 

[Travis Moore]

I really don't see why ANYONE uses the bosch sensor on a turbo application (we all like to turn it up and add good fuel).

 

[Anonymous]

is it possible a bosh sensor to show wrong air fuel if it it been used with racing fuel for like 500km?

Like showing 12.5-1 when the real air fuel would be like 10-1?


if that is the case ... then maybe my problem lies there...

 

[OTIS RX-1]

I just completed the install of an Innovate A/F LC-1 & XD-16.
I'd like to know the following before the first run of the season.
1. A/F ratio at Idle, mid range, wot?
2. Fuel suggestions? See sensor life concern below. I don't mind spending the $$ on good fuel.

I run 12-13# boost. Bender stage 2.
1450' elevation
03-121"
Stock head gasket
stock jets 135
stock pilots
Pitot tube 400
I've always run 50/50 C-12/93...I'm concerned about the lead in C-12 shortening the O2 sensor life.
Long pulls of 1/2 -3/4 mile.
I installed STM billet caps and billet "T's".
I went through some of the reference material but didn't find exactly what I was looking for.

Any help greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
OTIS RX

For A/F:

around 14 for idle is good (13.5-14.1) Cruising A/F when you aren't accelerating can be in this range as well, ideally just a bit lower. Any acceleration from here should send the numbers down into the high 11 - low 12's immediately. No more than 12 for WOT.

I think you're probably safe on fuel, but would suggest you read all of the info. available on the topic and make your own decision.

Your Bosch sensor isn't going to like the race fuel long term. If/when it fails, I'd suggest the NTK.

Are you assuming that it is infact a Bosch sensor that comes standard with the Innovate LC-1 XD16 package?!? Ted J. will know for sure as he sold me the kit.
Right now the gauge reads 12.6-13.1 at 1500-3,000RPM. I haven't had a chance to bring up the rpm's on the stand yet.
Will and NTK sensor plug right into my LC-1. Probably not that easy right?
Estimates on the life span of the Bosch sensor running 50/50 93/C12??
Always appreciate the input and help.
Thanks,
OTIS

 

[Ted Jannetty]

Innovate uses a readily available VW sensor made by more than likely bosch, it is known to be a very reliable sensor even in the presents of leaded fuel.

Yes, at some point the lead will contaminate the sensor and it will slow it's response time long before it is ever going to read wrong.

When an O2 sensor reads wrong it always reads lean NOT rich So no worries.

Being that you are using a mix of leaded and unleaded it will take you twice as long to contaminate the sensor, with the way you use your sled come see me in about 3 years for a replacement sensor.

You have a better chance of killing the sensor with water.

ON the A/F think of the the A/F being connected to your throttle and it should be linear just like your throttle, 14.5 at idle and 11.9-12.1 at WOT.

I find that they Idle a little better around 13.5 just because we operate cold alot for starting and warm up.

So really you need to fully warm up before checking any A/F.

If your really worried about the sensor switch to Sunoco Unleaded GT Plus or what they now call Sunoco 260+ same fuel different name.
104 unleaded. or if VP is easier for you use the VP Street Blaze 103 specifically blended for Turbos.

Besides these engines were designed to run on unleaded and you should be more concerned about Lead build up in the combustion chambers, pistons, and valves.

 

[Travis Moore]

I am pretty sure that you can change over the Innovate wideband with some internal jumpers or something to use the NTK sensor. Your best bet is to call them..

As far as the mixing goes, it simply comes down to how many much lead in your fuel (measured in grams per gallon). I think C12 is right around 5 grams a gallon, so a 50/50 mix puts you right at 2.5...

If I were you, I'd be running that SOB on AVGAS. Your fuel mix right now is giving you right around 98 motor octane, and costing you (I assume) about 5 dollars a gallon. With AVGAS, you could have more octane for less money.

I'm going to disagree with Ted and say that there is no concern with 'lead buildup'. I've ran my turbo cars/sleds for many years with factory engines on lots and lots of leaded fuel with no problems.

T

 

[Ted Jannetty]

I'm going to disagree with Ted and say that there is no concern with 'lead buildup'. I've ran my turbo cars/sleds for many years with factory engines on lots and lots of leaded fuel with no problems.

T

You can disagree if you want, it is a free country but when you build as many engines as I do you get to see what it really does.

 

[Travis Moore]

I'm going to disagree with Ted and say that there is no concern with 'lead buildup'. I've ran my turbo cars/sleds for many years with factory engines on lots and lots of leaded fuel with no problems.

T

You can disagree if you want, it is a free country but when you build as many engines as I do you get to see what it really does.

I'd love to hear your findings (not that I do not beleive you, but so I can educate myself). I ran C16 for years in my Supra (factory engine) and never had a excessive increase in leakdown %, loss of compression or increase in oil use. This is telling me that the valves and rings are fine.

I'm having similar results with my RX1 after 2 winters on it.

T

 

[Need for Speed 2]

avgas is for airplanes up at altitude with steddy load levels on engine. will work in engines but is not going to acheve same results as purpose desighned fuels. there that should create controversy.

 

[TurboJamie]

I didn't have very good luck with BOSCH sensors last winter. I ate 3 of them but I feel it was using the sensor saver that did mine in. I went saverless for the end of the winter put 1000 miles on trouble free. I don't think the sensor gets hot enough before the exhast to keep working without the saver. My sensor was always a nice tan color when I was saverless when I ran the saver it was all black and cruddy looking.

 

[Travis Moore]

avgas is for airplanes up at altitude with steddy load levels on engine. will work in engines but is not going to acheve same results as purpose desighned fuels. there that should create controversy.

This is true...but when does a airplane engine need to make the most power? That's right, takeoff and climb-at similar altitudes that we ride our sleds at.

AVGAS works well in these sleds, period.

T

 

[OTIS RX-1]

Super info guys. I love it when great minds (not me, "you" guys) get together to discuss and share the finer details. This is how we learn and make good decisions.
Ted is very well versed on how I ride and the conditions encountered, etc.
Either way Thanks All.
Great site. Great people!

 

[TurboJamie]

I ran Avgas to reduce knock last year when the octane in the pump fuel I was running was questionable. Seemed to work fine in my sled with no troubles.

 

[Travis Moore]

I ran Avgas to reduce knock last year when the octane in the pump fuel I was running was questionable. Seemed to work fine in my sled with no troubles.

Everyone that tries it feels the same...

Real world testing>internet bickering.