NEW MODEL IN FEB 2010?

[apltx08]

The apex may be faster but thats it it wont climb,handle in side hills as well or ditch bang as well. Plus it weighs way more like it or not a inline 4 is too heavey in a snowmobile,even a three cylinder is heavy, if yamaha wants to compete and surpass the bombies they have to be atleast the same weight.
A high powered twin in the fx chassis is the only way to go.
SECOND PLACE IS THE FIRST LOOSER

Here we go on WEIGHT battle again! I much rather have a little more weight and have durability...I also prefer to have a HEAVY 3 or 4 holer with the BEST track record in the industry than a HUGE 2 holer "SMOKER" with no realibility or performance! Its funny on how all manufacturers are trying to catch-up in the 4 STROKE biz in the last couple of years...who has been the leader in the 4 stroke segment?

 

[NyTrOMaNIaC]

to NyTrOMaNIaC

your right found it on wiki

09 R1 - 133.9 kW (179.6 hp) @ 12,500 rpm without ram air

but theres no reason why they cant put the 12500rpm motor in the apex

i wonder why they dint put it in in the apex in the first place....

They didn't base the Apex engine on the second gen 04-08 R1 engine becasue they had more R&D along with time spent on the 99-03 R1 engine, plus I'm sure they had spares to work with. This way, they were sure of reliability. I know there's a lot more to it than that, but this is usually how Yamaha works and it only makes sense. I can see them basing a new engine off the 2nd gen R1 engine, with 170ish hp and less weight. Only question is what chassis will they put it in ?

 

[V-maximum]

If anyone dosent think that weight in a snowmobile is or should not be a concern for the new models then they dont do much off trail riding I said it before and Ill say it again I own a four stroke yammy but off trail riding you will not and can not handle it like a rev. High powered yammys need to be alot lighter

 

[copo427ss]

to NyTrOMaNIaC

your right found it on wiki

09 R1 - 133.9 kW (179.6 hp) @ 12,500 rpm without ram air

but theres no reason why they cant put the 12500rpm motor in the apex

i wonder why they dint put it in in the apex in the first place....

They didn't base the Apex engine on the second gen 04-08 R1 engine becasue they had more R&D along with time spent on the 99-03 R1 engine, plus I'm sure they had spares to work with. This way, they were sure of reliability. I know there's a lot more to it than that, but this is usually how Yamaha works and it only makes sense. I can see them basing a new engine off the 2nd gen R1 engine, with 170ish hp and less weight. Only question is what chassis will they put it in ?

the second gen motors only went to 06.. 07-08 were the new 16 valve motors and were 176.8hp.the motor was completely redesigned for 07-08, 4 valve head instead of 5, electronic throttle and velocity stacks, higher reving. and 09 is the start of the crosspane. i dynoed my 07 r1 at work with cats cut out and my own custom slip ons, and a euro pcm and made 159.8hp at the tire. apex motors are based off the FZ1 bikes. which are based off the 04-06 design.

 

[copo427ss]

the rx1 motor is based off the 99-03. apex is 04-06. apex has different crank,head design, FI

 

[NyTrOMaNIaC]

If anyone dosent think that weight in a snowmobile is or should not be a concern for the new models then they dont do much off trail riding I said it before and Ill say it again I own a four stroke yammy but off trail riding you will not and can not handle it like a rev. High powered yammys need to be alot lighter

I slightly disagree. I owned a Blair Morgan Rev 800 for 4 years, and I can offtrail my FX Nytro RTX better than I could on the Rev. I did remove quite a bit of weight from my FX Nytro, about 40 lbs total which makes it about 10 lbs lighter than the Rev ready to ride, so perhaps that's why. I'm not disagreeing that the FX Nytro is heavier in the front than the Rev, but it is better balanced and has better ergos which makes it better for standup riding and offtrail. Oh yeah, it has wayyyy more torque and better power delivery than any Rev I've ridden too, and that definitely includes the 800R.

 

[NyTrOMaNIaC]

to NyTrOMaNIaC

your right found it on wiki

09 R1 - 133.9 kW (179.6 hp) @ 12,500 rpm without ram air

but theres no reason why they cant put the 12500rpm motor in the apex

i wonder why they dint put it in in the apex in the first place....

They didn't base the Apex engine on the second gen 04-08 R1 engine becasue they had more R&D along with time spent on the 99-03 R1 engine, plus I'm sure they had spares to work with. This way, they were sure of reliability. I know there's a lot more to it than that, but this is usually how Yamaha works and it only makes sense. I can see them basing a new engine off the 2nd gen R1 engine, with 170ish hp and less weight. Only question is what chassis will they put it in ?

the second gen motors only went to 06.. 07-08 were the new 16 valve motors and were 176.8hp.the motor was completely redesigned for 07-08, 4 valve head instead of 5, electronic throttle and velocity stacks, higher reving. and 09 is the start of the crosspane. i dynoed my 07 r1 at work with cats cut out and my own custom slip ons, and a euro pcm and made 159.8hp at the tire. apex motors are based off the FZ1 bikes. which are based off the 04-06 design.

You're right, I forgot about the 07-08 R1 redesign. Pretty sure they redlined @13,750 though, along with the current 09-10 R1 engine. I wasn't aware that the Apex engine was based upon the FZ, and I certainly wasn't aware that the FZ engine had anything in similarity to the 04-06 R1 engine. I always thought that the FZ engine was based upon the first gen R1 engine, but tamed down for better streetability, which led me to believe that the Apex engine was also based upon the first gen R1 engine. And we're both incorrect on one thing, the 04-06 R1 engine is the 3rd gen engine. Still, to drop over 20 hp in the Apex engine compared to the 3rd gen R1 engine is quite confusing. With there being 2 different configurations out since, you would think that Yamaha would have come out with an improved version already. Let's hope the 2011 model proves to be just that !

 

[MR.HAPPY]

New Apex Replacement!

3 cylinder 4 stroke 165hp
new lighter chassis
new skis
power steering
better warmers
better headlights
little more rider forward than Apex
35-40 lbs reduction

THINK SNOW!

BR

 

[SledFreak]

to NyTrOMaNIaC

your right found it on wiki

09 R1 - 133.9 kW (179.6 hp) @ 12,500 rpm without ram air

but theres no reason why they cant put the 12500rpm motor in the apex

i wonder why they dint put it in in the apex in the first place....

They didn't base the Apex engine on the second gen 04-08 R1 engine becasue they had more R&D along with time spent on the 99-03 R1 engine, plus I'm sure they had spares to work with. This way, they were sure of reliability. I know there's a lot more to it than that, but this is usually how Yamaha works and it only makes sense. I can see them basing a new engine off the 2nd gen R1 engine, with 170ish hp and less weight. Only question is what chassis will they put it in ?

the second gen motors only went to 06.. 07-08 were the new 16 valve motors and were 176.8hp.the motor was completely redesigned for 07-08, 4 valve head instead of 5, electronic throttle and velocity stacks, higher reving. and 09 is the start of the crosspane. i dynoed my 07 r1 at work with cats cut out and my own custom slip ons, and a euro pcm and made 159.8hp at the tire. apex motors are based off the FZ1 bikes. which are based off the 04-06 design.

You're right, I forgot about the 07-08 R1 redesign. Pretty sure they redlined @13,750 though, along with the current 09-10 R1 engine. I wasn't aware that the Apex engine was based upon the FZ, and I certainly wasn't aware that the FZ engine had anything in similarity to the 04-06 R1 engine. I always thought that the FZ engine was based upon the first gen R1 engine, but tamed down for better streetability, which led me to believe that the Apex engine was also based upon the first gen R1 engine. And we're both incorrect on one thing, the 04-06 R1 engine is the 3rd gen engine. Still, to drop over 20 hp in the Apex engine compared to the 3rd gen R1 engine is quite confusing. With there being 2 different configurations out since, you would think that Yamaha would have come out with an improved version already. Let's hope the 2011 model proves to be just that !

That's what kills me... They change the R1 motor every second year. We are on the 5 year term for the Apex... What's up with that. I know they sell more bikes, but come on...

 

[NyTrOMaNIaC]

It's becasue there's a TON more money involved in roadracing, so therefore, the competition and technology is more fierce and Yamaha has no other choice but to stay on top. The Apex has done very well against more powerful sleds, yet there's a lot more money to be made in the snocross series, so that's why we see more development in the FX chassis. I'd say Yamaha will focus it's development towards the FX chassis again next year, and the Hypersled category will get a slightly higher hp engine with a substantial weight reduction. Just look at what Yamaha did this year with the FX Nytro MTX SE sleds ; Less weight, better suspension, and more improvements on an already awesome sled. That's what I think we're going to see next year, however, I'd love to see a high hp sled that wipes out the competition in all aspects !

COME ON YAMAHA, WE KNOW YOU CAN DO IT !!!

 

[GotJuice]

LMAO.....your obviously a loser

The apex may be faster but thats it it wont climb,handle in side hills as well or ditch bang as well. Plus it weighs way more like it or not a inline 4 is too heavey in a snowmobile,even a three cylinder is heavy, if yamaha wants to compete and surpass the bombies they have to be atleast the same weight.
A high powered twin in the fx chassis is the only way to go.
SECOND PLACE IS THE FIRST LOOSER

>>>
An old indian once told me, " It's better to be silent and thought a fool then to speak out and remove all doubt "
You should consider this proverb as you've obviosuly not ridden a well set up Apex Mnt., they side hill and carve EASIER then the XP on every level, why do you think Doo changed the skid geometry this year because they didn't carve and side hill worth a chit! Don't talk trash about something you obviously know nothing about! I ride with Xp's and go every where and then some that they can....in fact I go places they can't because they skip water like a car battery.....and I can go for miles on water with the heavy pig Apex Mnt. and get to valley's never ridden by a man on a sled before.......amazing where rivers can take you in Alaska.

 

[SledFreak]

If anyone dosent think that weight in a snowmobile is or should not be a concern for the new models then they dont do much off trail riding I said it before and Ill say it again I own a four stroke yammy but off trail riding you will not and can not handle it like a rev. High powered yammys need to be alot lighter

I slightly disagree. I owned a Blair Morgan Rev 800 for 4 years, and I can offtrail my FX Nytro RTX better than I could on the Rev. I did remove quite a bit of weight from my FX Nytro, about 40 lbs total which makes it about 10 lbs lighter than the Rev ready to ride, so perhaps that's why. I'm not disagreeing that the FX Nytro is heavier in the front than the Rev, but it is better balanced and has better ergos which makes it better for standup riding and offtrail. Oh yeah, it has wayyyy more torque and better power delivery than any Rev I've ridden too, and that definitely includes the 800R.

Dave, where did you use lose 40 lbs on the Nytro?

 

[NyTrOMaNIaC]

If anyone dosent think that weight in a snowmobile is or should not be a concern for the new models then they dont do much off trail riding I said it before and Ill say it again I own a four stroke yammy but off trail riding you will not and can not handle it like a rev. High powered yammys need to be alot lighter

I slightly disagree. I owned a Blair Morgan Rev 800 for 4 years, and I can offtrail my FX Nytro RTX better than I could on the Rev. I did remove quite a bit of weight from my FX Nytro, about 40 lbs total which makes it about 10 lbs lighter than the Rev ready to ride, so perhaps that's why. I'm not disagreeing that the FX Nytro is heavier in the front than the Rev, but it is better balanced and has better ergos which makes it better for standup riding and offtrail. Oh yeah, it has wayyyy more torque and better power delivery than any Rev I've ridden too, and that definitely includes the 800R.

Dave, where did you use lose 40 lbs on the Nytro?

RS5 Ti exhaust mod (-13lbs)
YTZ7s battery (-13lbs)
Slydog skis/wheels (-4lbs)
Removed stock Airbox/Filter for K&N Filters (-3 or 4lbs ?)
Removed tunnel protectors (-3lbs not including snow buildup)

There's something else I'm forgetting, but these are the mods that contributed to most of the weight loss. I had it written down, and the total was 40lbs give or take a few ounces

 

[SledFreak]

What kind of battery is that? Is that better then the stocker?

 

[NyTrOMaNIaC]

What kind of battery is that? Is that better then the stocker?

It's a YUASA battery for a Yamaha WR 450 street/trail motorcycle. Some guys say they had issues with them cranking over in extreme cold, however, I haven't experienced any so far. I got the idea from SnoWest and here on TY, where Mtn guys have been running them in their Apex Mtn and FX Nytro Mtn sleds for years without problems, even some with Turbos. They don't offer near the cold cranking amps of the stock YTX20LBS battery, but like I said, it's worked well for me all last year, and hopefully this year too