NEW MODEL IN FEB 2010?

[SledFreak]

OK, thanks.

 

[copo427ss]

to NyTrOMaNIaC

your right found it on wiki

09 R1 - 133.9 kW (179.6 hp) @ 12,500 rpm without ram air

but theres no reason why they cant put the 12500rpm motor in the apex

i wonder why they dint put it in in the apex in the first place....

They didn't base the Apex engine on the second gen 04-08 R1 engine becasue they had more R&D along with time spent on the 99-03 R1 engine, plus I'm sure they had spares to work with. This way, they were sure of reliability. I know there's a lot more to it than that, but this is usually how Yamaha works and it only makes sense. I can see them basing a new engine off the 2nd gen R1 engine, with 170ish hp and less weight. Only question is what chassis will they put it in ?

the second gen motors only went to 06.. 07-08 were the new 16 valve motors and were 176.8hp.the motor was completely redesigned for 07-08, 4 valve head instead of 5, electronic throttle and velocity stacks, higher reving. and 09 is the start of the crosspane. i dynoed my 07 r1 at work with cats cut out and my own custom slip ons, and a euro pcm and made 159.8hp at the tire. apex motors are based off the FZ1 bikes. which are based off the 04-06 design.

You're right, I forgot about the 07-08 R1 redesign. Pretty sure they redlined @13,750 though, along with the current 09-10 R1 engine. I wasn't aware that the Apex engine was based upon the FZ, and I certainly wasn't aware that the FZ engine had anything in similarity to the 04-06 R1 engine. I always thought that the FZ engine was based upon the first gen R1 engine, but tamed down for better streetability, which led me to believe that the Apex engine was also based upon the first gen R1 engine. And we're both incorrect on one thing, the 04-06 R1 engine is the 3rd gen engine. Still, to drop over 20 hp in the Apex engine compared to the 3rd gen R1 engine is quite confusing. With there being 2 different configurations out since, you would think that Yamaha would have come out with an improved version already. Let's hope the 2011 model proves to be just that !

thats because of redline and cams/compression ratios. the 07-08 motors spun to almost 15. mine would almost bury the tach needle before it would grab the limiter. the fz1 has a lower redline, lower compression and different cams to move the power down to more streetable rpms. i would think and hope that yamaha would use the 07-08 design in a new apex. being it was a lighter better designed head, bigger 4 valves over 5 moves more air and promotes a better burn. less moving parts =less friction= more pwr freed up. bumping the compression and running on 87 isnt gonna work all that well. and using a smaller based cam profile isnt going to give you a high rev power of the r1. that 16 valve motor has lots of potential. and to redesign an engine like that for only a 2 yr run, doesnt make much sense at all. only to come out with a brand new motor to replace it. thats alot of r&d work for yamaha to waste. and we all know theyre not out to waste money right now. im willing to bet that we will see the 16v 07-08 motors in new fz1's as well as the apex's.

 

[Vmax540]

Either an apex replacement (bigger 3 banger) or more likely a 100-110hp power model to fill the gap between the phazer and nytro, bring on the exciter!

X2 ! 100hp would work !

 

[snowbeast]

The apex may be faster but thats it it wont climb,handle in side hills as well or ditch bang as well. Plus it weighs way more like it or not a inline 4 is too heavey in a snowmobile,even a three cylinder is heavy, if yamaha wants to compete and surpass the bombies they have to be atleast the same weight.
A high powered twin in the fx chassis is the only way to go.
SECOND PLACE IS THE FIRST LOOSER

No they dont have to match the xp800 in weight,the apex is for trails,and the xp800 is better off trail,it does not ride any better than a good valved gt and the gt out handles the doo in the tight and twisty trails anyday,yes it is heavier,i and alot of us prefer this extra weight,and i have had my 08 xp800r stuck,and when you are in 5 feet of snow,that sled felt like a ton too.

 

[birkebeiner]

YTZ7s battery (-13lbs)

Do you know if this battery would work in Vector '06 as well? I would for sure have that -13lbs weight saving as well!!

 

[NyTrOMaNIaC]

to NyTrOMaNIaC

your right found it on wiki

09 R1 - 133.9 kW (179.6 hp) @ 12,500 rpm without ram air

but theres no reason why they cant put the 12500rpm motor in the apex

i wonder why they dint put it in in the apex in the first place....

They didn't base the Apex engine on the second gen 04-08 R1 engine becasue they had more R&D along with time spent on the 99-03 R1 engine, plus I'm sure they had spares to work with. This way, they were sure of reliability. I know there's a lot more to it than that, but this is usually how Yamaha works and it only makes sense. I can see them basing a new engine off the 2nd gen R1 engine, with 170ish hp and less weight. Only question is what chassis will they put it in ?

the second gen motors only went to 06.. 07-08 were the new 16 valve motors and were 176.8hp.the motor was completely redesigned for 07-08, 4 valve head instead of 5, electronic throttle and velocity stacks, higher reving. and 09 is the start of the crosspane. i dynoed my 07 r1 at work with cats cut out and my own custom slip ons, and a euro pcm and made 159.8hp at the tire. apex motors are based off the FZ1 bikes. which are based off the 04-06 design.

You're right, I forgot about the 07-08 R1 redesign. Pretty sure they redlined @13,750 though, along with the current 09-10 R1 engine. I wasn't aware that the Apex engine was based upon the FZ, and I certainly wasn't aware that the FZ engine had anything in similarity to the 04-06 R1 engine. I always thought that the FZ engine was based upon the first gen R1 engine, but tamed down for better streetability, which led me to believe that the Apex engine was also based upon the first gen R1 engine. And we're both incorrect on one thing, the 04-06 R1 engine is the 3rd gen engine. Still, to drop over 20 hp in the Apex engine compared to the 3rd gen R1 engine is quite confusing. With there being 2 different configurations out since, you would think that Yamaha would have come out with an improved version already. Let's hope the 2011 model proves to be just that !

thats because of redline and cams/compression ratios. the 07-08 motors spun to almost 15. mine would almost bury the tach needle before it would grab the limiter. the fz1 has a lower redline, lower compression and different cams to move the power down to more streetable rpms. i would think and hope that yamaha would use the 07-08 design in a new apex. being it was a lighter better designed head, bigger 4 valves over 5 moves more air and promotes a better burn. less moving parts =less friction= more pwr freed up. bumping the compression and running on 87 isnt gonna work all that well. and using a smaller based cam profile isnt going to give you a high rev power of the r1. that 16 valve motor has lots of potential. and to redesign an engine like that for only a 2 yr run, doesnt make much sense at all. only to come out with a brand new motor to replace it. thats alot of r&d work for yamaha to waste. and we all know theyre not out to waste money right now. im willing to bet that we will see the 16v 07-08 motors in new fz1's as well as the apex's.

That's odd that your R1 would rev past 13,750, because according to Yamaha spec, redline is just that. It's been the same since 04, and peak power is at 12,500 as well, so there's really no sense going past where the bike makes it's most usable power. I'd say you had some issues with your tach, perhaps something a little too optimistic like on the 06 R6 (I had one as a track bike). Personally, I had my shift light set at 12,500 so I knew exactly when to shift gears for optimal performance, although, I couldn't even come close to optimally outperforming the bike. A few laps around AMP on even a CBR 125 was quite the workout :exc:

Anyway, back on topic, let's hope Yamaha surprises us all this year with something that blows the competition right off the map !

 

[NyTrOMaNIaC]

YTZ7s battery (-13lbs)

Do you know if this battery would work in Vector '06 as well? I would for sure have that -13lbs weight saving as well!!

Should work fine ! Just keep in mind that you'll have to rig up your battery bracket in order to fill the gap that the 7s battery can't offer. I used some foam pipe insulation and cut it to fit inside the bracket, stuffed it inside next to the battery and tightened it up, works perfect

Now that I think of it, perhaps the foam insulation I'm using is keeping some of the cold away from the battery, and this is why I'm not having any issues with cold starting ? Huh

 

[birkebeiner]

Should work fine ! Just keep in mind that you'll have to rig up your battery bracket in order to fill the gap that the 7s battery can't offer. I used some foam pipe insulation and cut it to fit inside the bracket, stuffed it inside next to the battery and tightened it up, works perfect

Now that I think of it, perhaps the foam insulation I'm using is keeping some of the cold away from the battery, and this is why I'm not having any issues with cold starting ? Huh

Thanks buddy!

 

[V-maximum]

who said anything about an apex mountain? anyway dosent matter apex still too heavy I ride both machines apex sure is a nice riden power house and reliable thats forsure, but for playing, jumping, and even ditch banging I just think light is right, thats why the XP's are the best at this. Like I said the first time a high powered twin in the fx chassis would be a winner IMO.

 

[blue er]

i don't know for sure but if it's replacing the apex i am due for a new sled, and i don't have much of a problem ditch banging with my buds yes it's heavier than most (but so am i) but i figure advil is the great equalizer when it comes to the workout

 

[pat the rat]

The apex may be faster but thats it it wont climb,handle in side hills as well or ditch bang as well. Plus it weighs way more like it or not a inline 4 is too heavey in a snowmobile,even a three cylinder is heavy, if yamaha wants to compete and surpass the bombies they have to be atleast the same weight.
A high powered twin in the fx chassis is the only way to go.
SECOND PLACE IS THE FIRST LOOSER

Here we go on WEIGHT battle again! I much rather have a little more weight and have durability...I also prefer to have a HEAVY 3 or 4 holer with the BEST track record in the industry than a HUGE 2 holer "SMOKER" with no realibility or performance! Its funny on how all manufacturers are trying to catch-up in the 4 STROKE biz in the last couple of years...who has been the leader in the 4 stroke segment?

x2,i sometimes have nightmares that i'm back on a 2 stroker,just the thought of driving a time bomb doesnt appeal to me anymore,money doesnt grow in trees so the money i spend goes to the one with the best reliability,that's yamaha

 

[kyzer]

i hope Yamaha takes there time if they do produce a higher hoursepower sled..With more house power you have to make sure that the rest of the sled can handle the extra power chaincase, clutches, tunnel, track etc. And when you beef up the sled to handle the extra power that adds more weight.. You know how some guys can't get over this weight issue ..Sure you can look for ways to shed pounds but it has shown from other manufactures that lighter is not always as reliable.. If you want to go faster buy a supercharger or turbo, buying a production Yamaha with a supercharger would probablly cost $20,000 Canadian and $8000 American. Thats alot of cash..Oh weel I guess we will see in Feb.

 

[apltx08]

, but for playing, jumping, and even ditch banging

If you bought an APEX for jumping and ditchbaging you DO NOT have the right sled! its a high milage groomed trail crusier and lake runner! so don't start comparing a "XP" which is in a totaly different league and please stop BASHING the BMW of groomed trail sled...

Thanks

 

[tmk50]

i hope Yamaha takes there time if they do produce a higher hoursepower sled..With more house power you have to make sure that the rest of the sled can handle the extra power chaincase, clutches, tunnel, track etc. And when you beef up the sled to handle the extra power that adds more weight..

I couldn't disagree with you more. Yamaha's are way over built. Case in point - all the turbod sleds that run through the stock power and drivetrain at 300hp. (including the stock belt). Rear skids that weigh 20 lbs more than they should. etc. etc. etc.

Weight is a big deal to the mountain guys. Like it or not the mountain segment is the only growing segment as far as sales go. Expect us to get our fair share of technology and attention over the next several years.

 

[birkebeiner]

Here we go on WEIGHT battle again! I much rather have a little more weight and have durability...I also prefer to have a HEAVY 3 or 4 holer with the BEST track record in the industry than a HUGE 2 holer "SMOKER" with no realibility or performance! Its funny on how all manufacturers are trying to catch-up in the 4 STROKE biz in the last couple of years...who has been the leader in the 4 stroke segment?

Why do you have to compromise on durability and quality when you want to make it a bit lighter? I don't mean Ski-Doo light, but a bit lighter but keep the Yamaha quality. And why does 4-strokes have to be 3 or 4 cyl? Can for sure be a 2 cyl as well, which would be a bit lighter but as reliable as a 3 or 4 cyl Yammi 4-stroke! A 2 cyl 900cc (or 1000cc) 4-stroke rev'ing approx 10,000 rpm's pumping out 130+ bhp would be fine, or what?

I agree with you, I wouldn't drop the quality of Yamaha just to keep it light, but most be something in between!!??