new thread on g force yam charger

[slowride06er]

The most I ever saw on the dream o meter was 131. This was before I had a GPS. The sled was also a 121 at the time. This was on the perfect day tail wind and all on lake gogebic in a safe spot of course. I now only see 122-127 that is 106-109 gps sled has been extended to 136 ice riper xt and 23 gear top gear. Should I put the 24 back in? I will run it with the 23 in first have to start writing down some hand notes got to squeeze a few more out of it.

 

[87gtNOS]

I'd run the 24t top gear.

I was running 25-38 with my Yamcharged 06 RTX. Pulling much heavier weight in the primary than a stock sled ever could. Had the YC for 5 full winters, it was awesome. Had a good quality boost gauge, made on average 1.7 psi....on clear days it sometimes made 2.1psi. You don't need a boost gauge to see the boost though...as the BARO gauge on your sled will show it. A change of 140 hpa is about 2 psi.

I owned my 06 since new, 10 full winters. I put it back to stock, sold the YC and HOLTZMAN nitrous and bought myself a 2012 XTX with a turbo.

 

[bigreis]

Skip the leaf blower? Just wanted a edge without dumping a pile into sled. Maybe I will go with happy spray.

I have a complete Boondocker 50 HP NOS setup for an Apex I am not using anymore... would be willing to sell it for a great price.

 

[slowride06er]

I have a complete Boondocker 50 HP NOS setup for an Apex I am not using anymore... would be willing to sell it for a great price.

Thanks for the offer but when I do install the system from what I read think I'm going with a Holtzman system. From what I you read you need to run a bottle warmer for that system not sure on that. I had bung welded in exhaust last season. I'm going to install a AFR for starters not sure on what sensor to run and display to use yet.

 

[bigreis]

Thanks for the offer but when I do install the system from what I read think I'm going with a Holtzman system. From what I you read you need to run a bottle warmer for that system not sure on that. I had bung welded in exhaust last season. I'm going to install a AFR for starters not sure on what sensor to run and display to use yet.

No worries, but just so you know, the Holtzman setup is subject to the same laws of chemistry as every other system out there. The Holtzman system doesn't need a bottle warmer (which is nothing more and a handgrip warmer stuck the nitrous bottle), but what they don't tell you is that as the temperature drops inside the bottle, the pressure of N2O will drop and will correspond to a lower power gain. If you have two identically sized bottles, the one with a higher temperature will maintain a higher pressure of N2O longer every time. Once the N2O is in the cylinders, all that is needed is extra fuel to react with the extra oxygen produced by the decomposition of the N2O. Only way to accomplish this is by telling the injectors to deliver the fuel faster.

Just for comparison, my system is for sale for $500 and includes a heated bottle that fits in the nose of an Apex, electronic fuel controller, thumb activation switch and a 50 lb mother bottle that is currently 100% full of nitrous. A new Holtzman system is almost $700 and that doesn't include a bottle for the sled (another $200), a mother bottle ($200) or any nitrous oxide (I paid $150 for 50 pounds).

If you change you mind, let me know.

 

[87gtNOS]

No worries, but just so you know, the Holtzman setup is subject to the same laws of chemistry as every other system out there. The Holtzman system doesn't need a bottle warmer (which is nothing more and a handgrip warmer stuck the nitrous bottle), but what they don't tell you is that as the temperature drops inside the bottle, the pressure of N2O will drop and will correspond to a lower power gain. If you have two identically sized bottles, the one with a higher temperature will maintain a higher pressure of N2O longer every time. Once the N2O is in the cylinders, all that is needed is extra fuel to react with the extra oxygen produced by the decomposition of the N2O. Only way to accomplish this is by telling the injectors to deliver the fuel faster.

Just for comparison, my system is for sale for $500 and includes a heated bottle that fits in the nose of an Apex, electronic fuel controller, thumb activation switch and a 50 lb mother bottle that is currently 100% full of nitrous. A new Holtzman system is almost $700 and that doesn't include a bottle for the sled (another $200), a mother bottle ($200) or any nitrous oxide (I paid $150 for 50 pounds).

If you change you mind, let me know.

WOW...you really have no clue how the Holtzman system works do you? I gained 20+ mph with a frosty bottle that was left outside at -25c.
The nozzle is a regulator.
A full bottle of nitrous at 80F is about 1100 psi.....(I don't remember the #'s exact, but that doesn't matter).
An empty bottle at 80F is 300 psi.
A full bottle at MINUS 30F is 300 psi.
The HOLTZMAN nozzle regulates the PSI to 300 psi. So bottle temp does NOT matter. Bottle pressure does NOT matter. Bottle can be -10F and 600 psi, it'll still come out the HOLTZMAN nozzles at 300psi.

GOOD TO THE LAST DROP. I've used a few hundred pounds of nitrous over the last 8 years in my 06 Apex....91 octane, hammer it!!
The VOLUME of the nitrous that comes out the nozzles is always the same. (grams per second).

 

[87gtNOS]

I am pretty sure I ran 96mph on GPS then hit 118 with nitrous....on slush. Look at that FROSTY bottle!

 

[bigreis]

WOW...you really have no clue how the Holtzman system works do you? I gained 20+ mph with a frosty bottle that was left outside at -25c.
The nozzle is a regulator.
A full bottle of nitrous at 80F is about 1100 psi.....(I don't remember the #'s exact, but that doesn't matter).
An empty bottle at 80F is 300 psi.
A full bottle at MINUS 30F is 300 psi.
The HOLTZMAN nozzle regulates the PSI to 300 psi. So bottle temp does NOT matter. Bottle pressure does NOT matter. Bottle can be -10F and 600 psi, it'll still come out the HOLTZMAN nozzles at 300psi.

GOOD TO THE LAST DROP. I've used a few hundred pounds of nitrous over the last 8 years in my 06 Apex....91 octane, hammer it!!
The VOLUME of the nitrous that comes out the nozzles is always the same. (grams per second).

You are right, I am totally clueless. I'm only a chemistry professor, so what would I know about the behavior of gasses. An EMPTY bottle of N2O has 300 psi???

 

[87gtNOS]

Consistent results all the time. #*$&@ kicking results.

 

[87gtNOS]

You are right, I am totally clueless. I'm only a chemistry professor, so what would I know about the behavior of gasses. An EMPTY bottle of N2O has 300 psi???

Pardon me, empty as in low....not empty. Buzz off with the technicality.

 

[NOS-PRO]

My sleds were the test subjects for Barry's Nitrous Systems (Holtzman).

Look up Rib Lake testing and you will see my Attak went thru the radar at 118mph without and 132mph with his kit.

Speculation at the track I race at wanted to say that a warmer full bottle produced more power than a full cold bottle..... That test was busted as they produced the same hpr and times at the track. Barry has his kits working great and no....you do not need a bottle heater. His patented nozzle works the same either cold bottle or warm bottle.

On other kits, you will need a bottle heater.

 

[87gtNOS]

Exactly NOS-PRO......many people confuse how a regular 'car' type nitrous system works, which depends on bottle pressure to remain consistent.
The HOLTZMAN sprays HARD right till you run out! Then it goes rich with fuel and the power drops off smoothly.
I've held mine forever it seemed at times just to stay beside one of those 1100 Cat Turbos with 'stage 4' until the Cat guy let off or I ran out!
Usually get about 30 to 45 seconds of spraying...so each time you race you use about 6 to 8 seconds worth, I'd get about 6 good races out of a bottle.


Back on topic, the Yamcharger works! Best bang for the buck I think. And sure is safer to use than NOS.

 

[bigreis]

The actual pressures of N2O at a few temperatures are:

653 psi at 10C (50F)
522 psi at 0C (32F)
300 psi at -23.5C (-10.3F)
254 psi at -28.2C (-18.8F)
218 psi at -34.4C (-30F)

What this tells us is that it is physically impossible to deliver N2O at a pressure over 300 psi once the temperature of the N2O inside the bottle drops below -23.5C (or -10.3F) regardless of which system you are using. That may sound way colder than the air temperatures we usually mess around in, but we must also remember that as N2O is pulled from the tank, it cools (extact same thing as what happens to those little "air duster" cans if you spray them for an extended period of time). So even if -23C, you would initially have 300 psi available, but within a few seconds of use, the internal temperature of the tank will dropped well below -23C and you would no longer have 300 psi available. If the ambient temperature is 0C and you are only on the bottle for 6 seconds at a time, then it is likely the internal bottle temperature will never drop below -23.5C and you would still be able to realize the full potential of Holtzman's system. If you are doing longer pulls or it is really cold out, a heated bottle is going to be able to keep you above 300 psi for a longer period of time due to starting out at a higher temperature... that is all I was getting at. Sorry if I ruffled any feathers...

 

[slowride06er]

Now I'm confused. Holts doesn't need a warmer? It always gives the same amount of spray until gone. Boondocker system needs a heater to give the same amount. The main reason I'm leaning towards the holts system is that I have found more information on them. I don't have the first hand knowledge about either system.

 

[06 apex yamcharger]

Yamcharger does work