Nytro in the Trees

[macnytro]

so when are we going to find out the secret product

 

[errol]

so when are we going to find out the secret product

x2

 

[mtdream]

so when are we going to find out the secret product

It is Made by Skinz...it is a set of A-Arms...They are working on the last details of it all...which will also include release date, prices etc.

It will be made to fit your stock spindles...So that is good...they are also working on a solution that wont require Evols...evols allow the flex needed to mount to stock shock location on chassis...however, float has a kit they are working on getting to help manage costs on it all...

There is one more product tester that is going to be trying out a set (somewhere in Alaska, or over Alaska )

 

[mtdream]

for those who are not on Snowest, and are not Premium members there...Here is a ride report from Christopher, he is the admin of Snowest, and got to ride on the sleds in Alpine with the Skinz folk last weekend...

here is the story....

A "certain company" contacted me a few weeks ago about a whole new prototype suspension they had been working on for the Yamaha Nytro, 2008-2012 editions.

Over the course of this winter they had built up a couple test mules and wanted to know if I would be interested in taking them out for a ride and offering some feedback as a fairly typical "Intermediate" rider, not as a hard core hill climber or well seasoned veteran with many years of back country experience. The plan was to meet up at the West Yellowstone Expo and spend a couple hours test riding.

Well, weather being what it was, they got nailed and delayed and we were not able to hook up. Fast forward to Friday last. The company and several of their employees traveled from West Yellowstone to Alpine Wyoming to participate in a 3 day "Next Level Riding Clinic" with Dan Adams. I had tried to call them on Thursday but the company cell phone was out of service, so knowing they were in the class, we just drove up to Alpine hoping for the best and arrived just in time to join in on the morning warmup before they left for the day's ride. What I thought was going to be a 1-2 hour ride, turned into a full day with group while they were in class with Dan.

(Just a side note here. I was VERY impressed with the operation that Dan Adams had put together up there. Its not very often that you get a free peek into someone else's classroom when your not a student. But Dan was gracious and allowed my son and I to tag along for the whole day's course and ride, and I liked everything I saw. If your seriously interested in improving your technical riding skills, I would heartily endorse his class. This is not a RIDE WITH ME clinic, this is an actual course of instruction designed to make you a better, more competent rider. I plan on returning for the full class)


So, what did we have to play with.
2 normally aspirated late model Yamaha Nytros.
Both running this new prototype suspension, but with subtle differences.

The "Black" sled is SCMURS ride and the "Green" sled was the shop's own test mule.

While the two sleds were similar, they rode as different as day and night.
The primary difference between the two test sleds was the ride height and the A-Arm Width.

Black Sled = Higher Ride height and narrower Arms.
Green Sled = Lower Ride height and wider arms.

It should be noted that the green sled also had a new prototype "Freestyle" seat that took you down to only 2 inches off the tunnel! The center of gravity on this sled is as LOW as you can go!!


Most of the day I rode SCMURS Black sled and my son rode the green sled. Had I understood how HUGE the differences were, I would have traded with him sooner.

Sadly, the bone stock Nyto is not know as one of the best handling snowmobiles being offered right now. In fact, it has some really significant downsides.

They dive, they are unpredictable, they dart and seem to go wherever they want on the trail. From what I can tell, the 2008 were the worst. However, I LOVE the Nytro for many other reasons. With a little bit of work and effort this sled can be "transformed" into a very sweet ride. While it is not likely the Nytro will ever become an M or a Pro, riding this new prototype shows it can be extremely close.

So, what exactly have they done?

This front end moves the spindles forward 4.5" and increases the caster angle to about what the Pro and the M are running.

They also narrowed it a little and are running the EVOL shocks.

They feel the Nytro front end is positioned in the wrong place which affects the balance points and the manners on the trail.

They found (as did we) DRAMATIC improvements in the sled's abilities and predictability.

The Yamaha factory made improvements after 2008 model, but they didn't think Yamaha went nearly far enough. Their thought was that pushing the skis further out in front of the sled (ala Arctic Cat) deals with the nose diving and the big time unpredictable nature. The new front end drops about 6 pounds and they also built a tee top steering post that drops another pound.



Riding impressions.

Some of you may recall that I installed a set of GEN III skis on my sled this year, with the most noticeable effect being that it was "easier" to turn the skis when at a dead stop. Not a huge thing, but it was very apparent to me, and made it easier to change direction of the ski when stopped AND when moving very slowly...

The first thing I noticed about the test sled, which had the OEM skis on it, was how EASY it was to turn on the trail.

My personal #1 gripe about the Nytro is the horrible trail manners. Like it or not, I have to spend a good portion of my weekend on trails getting to my favorite playgrounds. And piloting the Nytro on trails is a PAIN IN THE BUTT. Even with the OFT Steering Relocator kit, it still takes a LOT of energy to ride this sled around tight turns at speed and keep it going where YOU want it to and not where it wants to.

This new front end suspension reduces the amount of physical effort required to control the sled by a HUGE amount. While I "thought" the difference was big, I didn't fully appreciate it till I took my sled out and rode it on Saturday. The difference is DRAMATIC! It is MUCH less fatiguing to ride and require a whole lot less upper body input to steer.


The 2nd thing I discovered was how much easier it was to roll over and get up on an edge. I could lean this sled over, step OFF the running boards, and walk the sled through a tight turn without having to exert myself! The chance in the suspension geometry has resulted in a sled that is MUCH more willing to roll over and do what you ask of it without having to FORCE it. My 162SE is a PAIN IN THE BUTT to get over. It will do it, but there is no grace or finesse to it, its not "elegant" in the least degree.

The new sled is just the opposite, it was ready and WILLING to roll over any time I asked it to! It should be noted that my side hilling abilities are VERY LIMITED at this point in my sledding experience. That said, I did things on this sled I have never been able to do on mine! With no small amount of encouragement I found myself doing things I wouldn't have even attempted with my sled. Its manners are Vastly improved over the stock sled.


As a general rule, if you improve the trail manners you sacrifice the off trail performance, and vice-a-versa.
So far as I was able to tell in 4-5 hours of riding, this is NOT the case. they seem to have nailed a winning combination that makes the sled behave better in both ON and OFF trail riding.

If they take this into production this summer, then it WILL be on my sled next Winter!


Some comments on the Green Sled.
This is what they were calling the "Freestyle Sled".
It had a very low center of gravity with a slightly wider ski stance.
If I understood it correctly they changed the center shock air pressure quite a bit Thursday night to see what differnce it would make.
With my limited experience, this was the single worst handling sled I have ever ridden in my life. I swear this sled wanted me OFF it's seat. It darted and turned and tried to buck me off every chance it got on the trail riding back. Apparently the difference in performance from Thursday to Friday that resulted from that mid shock pressure change was way beyond their expectation. The previous riders reported that this sled handled like a race car on the trail. that it rode like it was on rails. And for me it was just the opposite, it took everything I could to keep it pointed straight ahead and not diving off the side of the mountain into the river down below.

I simply wouldn't have believed that just changing the air pressure in one shock could so drastically alter the behavior of a sled! "

 

[ruffryder]

cool info.

So any word on what this all entails? Please say they are going to include spindles and bearings and high quality bushings.

 

[hugger70mtnmax]

It doesn't come with spindles. Uses the stock spindles. I sure hope they take care of the slop in the bushings. My upper arms only have about 500 miles on them and there is quite a bit of play in the mounting bushings.

 

[hugger70mtnmax]

Thanks a lot MT. I am really bummed right now that our snow down here in Utah sucks. It just has been too warm down here. Looks like it was good there in Alpine. I truly look forward to riding this new front end.

 

[tmk50]

so when are we going to find out the secret product

It is Made by Skinz...it is a set of A-Arms...They are working on the last details of it all...which will also include release date, prices etc.

It will be made to fit your stock spindles...So that is good...they are also working on a solution that wont require Evols...evols allow the flex needed to mount to stock shock location on chassis...however, float has a kit they are working on getting to help manage costs on it all...

There is one more product tester that is going to be trying out a set (somewhere in Alaska, or over Alaska )

If I am reading this right - the final "kit" will hopefully just be a set of A-arms and the stock shocks can be kept on the sled?

 

[tapex_07]

Ok, well it sounds like I need a set of these!!

 

[macnytro]

thanks mt. sounds like my next add on

 

[swelly]

so when are we going to find out the secret product

It is Made by Skinz...it is a set of A-Arms...They are working on the last details of it all...which will also include release date, prices etc.

It will be made to fit your stock spindles...So that is good...they are also working on a solution that wont require Evols...evols allow the flex needed to mount to stock shock location on chassis...however, float has a kit they are working on getting to help manage costs on it all...

There is one more product tester that is going to be trying out a set (somewhere in Alaska, or over Alaska )

Over Alaska is probably a very fair statement. That if, it's who I think it is.

 

[mtdream]

so when are we going to find out the secret product

It is Made by Skinz...it is a set of A-Arms...They are working on the last details of it all...which will also include release date, prices etc.

It will be made to fit your stock spindles...So that is good...they are also working on a solution that wont require Evols...evols allow the flex needed to mount to stock shock location on chassis...however, float has a kit they are working on getting to help manage costs on it all...

There is one more product tester that is going to be trying out a set (somewhere in Alaska, or over Alaska )

If I am reading this right - the final "kit" will hopefully just be a set of A-arms and the stock shocks can be kept on the sled?

well, I dont think the stock coil over shocks will work...there is clearly a eye to eye requirement for the platform to work...part of what we have been working with is pressures, and length of shock...

 

[tmk50]

so when are we going to find out the secret product

It is Made by Skinz...it is a set of A-Arms...They are working on the last details of it all...which will also include release date, prices etc.

It will be made to fit your stock spindles...So that is good...they are also working on a solution that wont require Evols...evols allow the flex needed to mount to stock shock location on chassis...however, float has a kit they are working on getting to help manage costs on it all...

There is one more product tester that is going to be trying out a set (somewhere in Alaska, or over Alaska )

If I am reading this right - the final "kit" will hopefully just be a set of A-arms and the stock shocks can be kept on the sled?

well, I dont think the stock coil over shocks will work...there is clearly a eye to eye requirement for the platform to work...part of what we have been working with is pressures, and length of shock...

Sorry I was not specific - will the stock fox air shocks on the 2010-11 SEs and the 2012 MTX work with the A-arm kit?

I demo-ed a 2011 last weekend with the Push Turbo on it - thinking about pulling the trigger on a leftover 2011 or a 2012 with a turbo. I would probably add the OFT steering relocator, SKINZ airframe running boards, and this A-arm kit to it before the first ride next fall.

 

[scmurs]

well, I dont think the stock coil over shocks will work...there is clearly a eye to eye requirement for the platform to work...part of what we have been working with is pressures, and length of shock...

I know what is needed for the shocks to work properly and you will not be able to use the OEM coil over shocks from an 08-09 model. They are going to have to be Fox Floats assuming that the shocks can be retrofitted with the spherical bearings in the ends of the shock mounts ( still TBD last I heard ).

The change in the geometry of the front end, accompanied with mounting the upper portion of the shock on the OEM mount points, means that the shock is not 100% perpendicular to the mounting bolts and will need the spherical rod end bearings to compensate for the amount that it is not lined up.

Say that 5 times really fast

 

[Mtnviper]

If the narrow front end would work with the longer 17.5" shocks, that would be cool!