KnappAttack
24X ISR World Drag Racing Champion
- Joined
- Feb 19, 2004
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- Snowmobile
- 2023 Sidewinder LTX-LE
2017 Sidewinder LTX-LE
DYNAREX, Thats a great thought! When I bought my filters from Fred I mentioned this same thing to him as he was having a hard time getting the small vent filters. How much vacuam do you think is on the crankcase with them vented to the mouth of the filters? Do you use vacuam pumps on the your car engines? If so how much power do the pick up? I know the Pro-Stock bikes run them. You mentioned you picked up MPH by doing this but is sounds like you didn't do back to back testing. How can you be sure you are seeing a gain? How many MPH did you pick up? Hay thats alot of questions ,but inquiring minds gotta know 
Mike Knapp #17
Mike Knapp #17
Mighty
TY 4 Stroke God
- Joined
- Apr 17, 2003
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- Grand Ledge Michigan USA!
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- 22 Mach Z
23 Sidewinder SRX
DYNAREX, Can you elborate on venting to the mouth of the filters?
DYNAREX
Expert
first -let me take moment of silence in that im actually conversing with MIKE KNAPP the god of speed
MIKE-ive used a positive evac system for years on my engines whatever the configuration,and i can tell you the high rpm power numbers always are better with-i do know that big diesel engines run actual pumps to scavange the crankcase maybe ted janetty can help us there-but as far as power numbers on our sleds i dont have stats-just lake testing and we are talking on the average 5mph up top-my cousin(a ford engineer)just got back from canada and we tested several items for 3 days-the crankcase evac system i designed is one of them-we ran 20 or so runs with/with out the system and i can say that it does work as i planned therefor the theory behind running it on a car engine should apply but moreso as we are turning alot higher rpm-just remember -for every action there an equal reaction thing-well as im sure you know when the piston moves down its displaceing air in the crankcase-this displacement is actually work-so the piston bottoms are working as well as the tops-now if there is a vacuum under them,pumping less air is less work right?
also the piston rings are stabilized much more as the pressure on top is forcing them out to seal better and the lack of pressure underneath isnt fighting this-an added benefit ive found is that the hoses dont ice up-the reason for this is that it is sealed from out side air,so unlike a breater where moist air can condense and freeze this is sealed from the crank tube to the carb mouths- hope i answered all the questions and i hope you understand my ramblings
with deepest respect
dynarex
MIKE-ive used a positive evac system for years on my engines whatever the configuration,and i can tell you the high rpm power numbers always are better with-i do know that big diesel engines run actual pumps to scavange the crankcase maybe ted janetty can help us there-but as far as power numbers on our sleds i dont have stats-just lake testing and we are talking on the average 5mph up top-my cousin(a ford engineer)just got back from canada and we tested several items for 3 days-the crankcase evac system i designed is one of them-we ran 20 or so runs with/with out the system and i can say that it does work as i planned therefor the theory behind running it on a car engine should apply but moreso as we are turning alot higher rpm-just remember -for every action there an equal reaction thing-well as im sure you know when the piston moves down its displaceing air in the crankcase-this displacement is actually work-so the piston bottoms are working as well as the tops-now if there is a vacuum under them,pumping less air is less work right?
also the piston rings are stabilized much more as the pressure on top is forcing them out to seal better and the lack of pressure underneath isnt fighting this-an added benefit ive found is that the hoses dont ice up-the reason for this is that it is sealed from out side air,so unlike a breater where moist air can condense and freeze this is sealed from the crank tube to the carb mouths- hope i answered all the questions and i hope you understand my ramblings
with deepest respect
dynarex
RTX Meirda
TY 4 Stroke Master
DYNAREX:
Just wondering if you would share your instructions for a nice clean install?
Also wondering what jets and springs you are using.
Thanks
Just wondering if you would share your instructions for a nice clean install?
Also wondering what jets and springs you are using.
Thanks
KnappAttack
24X ISR World Drag Racing Champion
- Joined
- Feb 19, 2004
- Messages
- 4,683
- Location
- Welch MN
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- USA
- Snowmobile
- 2023 Sidewinder LTX-LE
2017 Sidewinder LTX-LE
DYNAREX, Yes, I understand. I've been running the vent to the filters since I talked to Fred about it when I purchased the filters. I never tested without it though. Common sence tells you it will seal the rings better just as a vacuam pump would. I should hook up a vacuam guage to the line to see how much its really pulling. I could monitor it on the data acuasation computer if I had to sensor to do so. Guys, all you have to do is install a plastic nipple Into the middle of each filter in the rubber portion and epoxy it in, run a hose to a tee, and run a short hose where you now have the vent filter. Its a very easy thing to do. I asked Freddie why he wasn't doing this and he thought it would be sucking to much hot air from the case. It would be interesting to see if it pickes up power on the dyno. If it does pickup speed as reported, it should be worth 6-7 HP. which seems a bit high. Who knows, this may be the fix for all the reported cases of MPH decrease with the kit. How many of you with the problem broke the sled in by the book, rather than running it hard to seat the rings? Inquiring minds want to know!!! Mike Knapp #17
DYNAREX
DYNAREX: I'd like to talk to you on the phone if that's possible??
I can call you or here is my number 248-310-9879
thanks jason
DYNAREX: I'd like to talk to you on the phone if that's possible??
I can call you or here is my number 248-310-9879
thanks jason
DYNAREX
Expert
i would be happy to talk to any one about what ive done
as im always in the shop doing something its best to get me by e-mail
dynarex1@aol.com
basically i went to my local parts store got a few plastic 3/4 and 5/8 elbows and tees-drilled a hole in center of filters and used and chevy valve cover pcv grommett to secure a ninety degree 5/8 elbow in each
then join the 2 elbows with a 5/8 tee fitting and short hose-run a 3/4 piece of hose from crank tube to another 90 elbow and join it to the hose from the carbs but use a tee fitting and let a piece dangle towards the belly pan and cap this off-kinda like a carb drain water trap-this way if any moisture builds it will drain to the bottom and freeze and not block off the actual suction portion-sorry i cant post pics -if i can help on anything e mail me or call-845-868-7540 my name is Dean
Dynamic Recreation Service (Dynarex)
as im always in the shop doing something its best to get me by e-mail
dynarex1@aol.com
basically i went to my local parts store got a few plastic 3/4 and 5/8 elbows and tees-drilled a hole in center of filters and used and chevy valve cover pcv grommett to secure a ninety degree 5/8 elbow in each
then join the 2 elbows with a 5/8 tee fitting and short hose-run a 3/4 piece of hose from crank tube to another 90 elbow and join it to the hose from the carbs but use a tee fitting and let a piece dangle towards the belly pan and cap this off-kinda like a carb drain water trap-this way if any moisture builds it will drain to the bottom and freeze and not block off the actual suction portion-sorry i cant post pics -if i can help on anything e mail me or call-845-868-7540 my name is Dean
Dynamic Recreation Service (Dynarex)
Mighty
TY 4 Stroke God
- Joined
- Apr 17, 2003
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- 4,794
- Age
- 61
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- Grand Ledge Michigan USA!
- Country
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- Snowmobile
- 22 Mach Z
23 Sidewinder SRX
If I understand you Dean, drill a hole right square in the middle of the K&N letters on the end of the filter with the hose going directly down in front of the filters?
SUPERTUNER
TY 4 Stroke Master
Crankcase evacuation systems are an economical and easy way to get more cheap performance. On our Pro Stock and Pro Mod dragbikes, we use crankcase evacuations pumps that run off the battery(s). These pumps are very capable of making the engine perform less work by having to move air on the underside of the pistons and displace it elsewhere.
The idea of routing the crankcase vent hose into the air filters has been proposed before and although I do like anything that works, there are some drawbacks to this method of crankcase evacuation.
First, putting hot air back into your engine is definately not the best way to make power. Secondly, and this is actually only a slight chance, if you do end up pushing some oil out of your crankcase vent, this oil now gets pushed into the carburetors. It is very unlikely however that oil will be able to make the uphill climb effectively.
On one of my most succesful Pro Stock bikes, I was borderline too heavy for the class compared to the anorexic riders racing back then. I did not want to put a 5 or 6 pound pump and the additional wiring and switches on the bike to operate it. I designed an evacuation pump that ran off of the exhaust pulse. Where all 4 pipes collected, I installed a tube directly down the center of all 4 pipes and made this tube extend past the end of the pruimary header tubes contained in the collector by 3/4". This created a siphon that made the crankcase evacuation begin the moment that the engine was started and because pressure builds as RPM rises, the natural progression of the bike as it progressed down the track made the RPM and the draw on the evac tube work together thereby never having more pressure in the crankcase than what was being evacuated. It was a good way of getting rid of unwanted pressure under the pistons thereby allowing the engine to turn over easier and with less effort thereby using up valuable power.
The RX1 exhaust system in not conducive to easily performing what I state here but could be done. The hard part is getting everything around the inserted tube sealed back up with welding.
When we build a new 4 stroke race engine, we install a pressure guage on the crankcase and monitor it until we see a number we like. This may sound backwards but we want to see a high pressure before making any dyno pulls. When the rings seal properly the internal pressure of the engine goes up instead of displacing air back and forth past the rings. When we see high crankcase pressure on the guage and a steady needle, this means that our rings are sealed and we now could make dynoruns that will show power from a properly seated set of rings. Now we turn the evac pump on and we have the best of both worlds with high combustion chamber pressure and low crankcase pressure. You guys also have to understand that we run compression ratio's as high as 19 and 20 to 1, so it is far more imperative with this level of compression than a stock RX1. Once the rings are properly seated, there actually is very little that the evac does to promote better ring sealing but it is reasonable to think that some ring sealing is occurring.
But ya know what? I am delighted that we are sharing all this tech stuff and I believe in the "whatever works for you" method of thinking. The last thing we need is more weight on the RX1 so the pump is really not an option. Plus these are trail sleds and we want things easy. The pump is one more thing to service and could break. I have performed things like Dynarex explains here on some motorcycles that are used during warm weather climates anyways so the power drop from inducting hot air is not as noticeable, but once again, if it works for you guys, then by all means do it!
Freddie
The idea of routing the crankcase vent hose into the air filters has been proposed before and although I do like anything that works, there are some drawbacks to this method of crankcase evacuation.
First, putting hot air back into your engine is definately not the best way to make power. Secondly, and this is actually only a slight chance, if you do end up pushing some oil out of your crankcase vent, this oil now gets pushed into the carburetors. It is very unlikely however that oil will be able to make the uphill climb effectively.
On one of my most succesful Pro Stock bikes, I was borderline too heavy for the class compared to the anorexic riders racing back then. I did not want to put a 5 or 6 pound pump and the additional wiring and switches on the bike to operate it. I designed an evacuation pump that ran off of the exhaust pulse. Where all 4 pipes collected, I installed a tube directly down the center of all 4 pipes and made this tube extend past the end of the pruimary header tubes contained in the collector by 3/4". This created a siphon that made the crankcase evacuation begin the moment that the engine was started and because pressure builds as RPM rises, the natural progression of the bike as it progressed down the track made the RPM and the draw on the evac tube work together thereby never having more pressure in the crankcase than what was being evacuated. It was a good way of getting rid of unwanted pressure under the pistons thereby allowing the engine to turn over easier and with less effort thereby using up valuable power.
The RX1 exhaust system in not conducive to easily performing what I state here but could be done. The hard part is getting everything around the inserted tube sealed back up with welding.
When we build a new 4 stroke race engine, we install a pressure guage on the crankcase and monitor it until we see a number we like. This may sound backwards but we want to see a high pressure before making any dyno pulls. When the rings seal properly the internal pressure of the engine goes up instead of displacing air back and forth past the rings. When we see high crankcase pressure on the guage and a steady needle, this means that our rings are sealed and we now could make dynoruns that will show power from a properly seated set of rings. Now we turn the evac pump on and we have the best of both worlds with high combustion chamber pressure and low crankcase pressure. You guys also have to understand that we run compression ratio's as high as 19 and 20 to 1, so it is far more imperative with this level of compression than a stock RX1. Once the rings are properly seated, there actually is very little that the evac does to promote better ring sealing but it is reasonable to think that some ring sealing is occurring.
But ya know what? I am delighted that we are sharing all this tech stuff and I believe in the "whatever works for you" method of thinking. The last thing we need is more weight on the RX1 so the pump is really not an option. Plus these are trail sleds and we want things easy. The pump is one more thing to service and could break. I have performed things like Dynarex explains here on some motorcycles that are used during warm weather climates anyways so the power drop from inducting hot air is not as noticeable, but once again, if it works for you guys, then by all means do it!
Freddie
YAM182
Expert
I ran my Warrior with the stock air box and turned the idle up to about 2900rpm and then unhooked the vent hose from the plastic thingy and there is suction from the air box on this line.I couldn`t get a good feel as to wether the nipple on the bottom of air box has suction or not.
What about the small hose on the bottom of the air box?What does this do?Does leaving it unhooked with the filters change something also?
There are two nipples with rubber caps on top of the center carbs.Could these be used as hose hookups?Or would it be better to have the suction on the intake/ outside of the carbs?Rather than between the carbs and motor.
Just wondering and throwing out some thoughts.
I get this two stroke thing figured out and now have to switch to 4-stroke tuning.Gotta love it!
What about the small hose on the bottom of the air box?What does this do?Does leaving it unhooked with the filters change something also?
There are two nipples with rubber caps on top of the center carbs.Could these be used as hose hookups?Or would it be better to have the suction on the intake/ outside of the carbs?Rather than between the carbs and motor.
Just wondering and throwing out some thoughts.
I get this two stroke thing figured out and now have to switch to 4-stroke tuning.Gotta love it!
SUPERTUNER
TY 4 Stroke Master
Crimedawg said:
That small hose is nothing but a drain for when your airbox gets filled with oil or melted condensation.
horny red devil
Pro
:twisted: :twisted: I don't even have a four stroke yet and BOY!! I love this. You guys are something else and thats why my wife can't stand snowmobile season because I have to read the posts over and over to even get a 1/3 of what your saying. Great posts guys.
THANX!!!!! :twisted: :twisted:
THANX!!!!! :twisted: :twisted:
race24x
TY 4 Stroke Master
There are some pretty trick things out there another one my local speedshop was working on was oil return and flow you can gain HP by working on how much drag the oil makes going through the engine. They had also mentioned about the crankcase thing I know on the Hayabusa there are some mods you can do to do this same thing.
SUPERTUNER
TY 4 Stroke Master
race24x said:
race24x
TY 4 Stroke Master
Thats the one Freddie. I had heard some bad feedback on one of the other forums I am into which is Hayabusa.org about the oil light coming on with this mod. Not sure why but I opted for removal of the pair valve and block off plates. Some others where putting it into the air box thinking it would pressurize the Airbox for a supercharger effect. I cant see how you would gain much if anything with this but I dont know for sure. I have a friend I rode with once from Hayabusa.org his handle is Ninja Eater he has a turbo Busa he is from Connecticut do you know him by any chance?
