DamonJones
Extreme
rafbro - Sorry if I came across crass. Did not mean to. Pump, compressor, blower, huffer, all means the same. I'll try not to use slang when making a specific point next time.
As far as why dump it back in, two reasons, fisrt is emisions. All the crank case vapors and blow by will be expelled into the air unless routed back into the air inake. Even your oldest motors in cars vented the oil caps back into the air cleaner. Second is if done propery will keep dirt and debree from getting back into the oil and crankcase through the vent tube.
Now that being said in the case of a Turbo I would not do that unless there was a way to stop massive oil dumps occuring in the Nytros. Meaning we need to fix that issue as well. The concern would be hot oil on a very hot turbo and the chance of fire. Maybe the turbo guys could shed some light on that topic.
As far as why dump it back in, two reasons, fisrt is emisions. All the crank case vapors and blow by will be expelled into the air unless routed back into the air inake. Even your oldest motors in cars vented the oil caps back into the air cleaner. Second is if done propery will keep dirt and debree from getting back into the oil and crankcase through the vent tube.
Now that being said in the case of a Turbo I would not do that unless there was a way to stop massive oil dumps occuring in the Nytros. Meaning we need to fix that issue as well. The concern would be hot oil on a very hot turbo and the chance of fire. Maybe the turbo guys could shed some light on that topic.
rfabro said:
WOW! I thought I was on SW Forum for a minute...
august
Veteran
I am having a hard time locating these solenoids. Anybody have part #'s or models etc...
I am interested in the version that is open at rest.
Thanks
I am interested in the version that is open at rest.
Thanks
DamonJones
Extreme
I made some iquiries into this as well. The Guy on EBAY that sells the inexpensive plastic ones shown in the thread does not have a normally open one in that style. He does have on in brass however. Cost is around $45 unfortunatly.
I have been too busy to follow up any more. Let us know if you find a cheaper solution. Here is the EBAY handle ofthe guy that carries them. "valves4projects "
I have been too busy to follow up any more. Let us know if you find a cheaper solution. Here is the EBAY handle ofthe guy that carries them. "valves4projects "
Muleskinner
Veteran
Oil breather fix
Here is what I did. Haven't lost a drop of oil yet and it has been on it's lid several times. Besides this, one of the keys is to kill the engine as fast as you can. This would work for turbos as well and is much more effective, neat and tidy than the pop bottle setup. I have a lot of experience with solenoid valves like have been discussed in this post but couldn't bring myself to trust it. The last thing I want is a blown motor. By the way, the best solenoid valves to use, if you insist on it, are ASCO valves. They are expensive but are tough and can handle lots of vibration, temperature swings, knocks etc. They have a gravity feed aluminum body style. Don't trust your engine to a $10 chinese valve.
Here is what I did. Haven't lost a drop of oil yet and it has been on it's lid several times. Besides this, one of the keys is to kill the engine as fast as you can. This would work for turbos as well and is much more effective, neat and tidy than the pop bottle setup. I have a lot of experience with solenoid valves like have been discussed in this post but couldn't bring myself to trust it. The last thing I want is a blown motor. By the way, the best solenoid valves to use, if you insist on it, are ASCO valves. They are expensive but are tough and can handle lots of vibration, temperature swings, knocks etc. They have a gravity feed aluminum body style. Don't trust your engine to a $10 chinese valve.
Attachments
jrusher
Extreme
Re: Oil breather fix
Looks good,, I'll have to fab one up as well...
Muleskinner said:Here is what I did. Haven't lost a drop of oil yet and it has been on it's lid several times. Besides this, one of the keys is to kill the engine as fast as you can. This would work for turbos as well and is much more effective, neat and tidy than the pop bottle setup. I have a lot of experience with solenoid valves like have been discussed in this post but couldn't bring myself to trust it. The last thing I want is a blown motor. By the way, the best solenoid valves to use, if you insist on it, are ASCO valves. They are expensive but are tough and can handle lots of vibration, temperature swings, knocks etc. They have a gravity feed aluminum body style. Don't trust your engine to a $10 chinese valve.
Looks good,, I'll have to fab one up as well...
bholmlate
Expert
About this breather line thing
I have a question for everyone. Is there any reason the line has to be +/- 5/8' I.D.? Pressure is pressure I am sure the Yamaha enginers are a lot smarter then i am (it might be proven with this post) and have their reasons for making it as big as they did but, air pressure will flow through an 1/8'' line as easy as it will through a 1" line. Yes there is more volume of air moving through the bigger line but the primary function is to balance air pressure and we are not talking a huge pressure difference here. The only thing i can think of is that a bigger line is less likely to be pinched off which would cause problems obviously Since these things use such light oil w0-30, the oil would flow slower through a smaller line as opposed to a larger one
Does anyone see why you could not reduce the size of the line so in the case of a roll-over the oil would still leak out but not nearly as quick So you would not loose as much oil or even none at all depending how fast you can get the sled turned over. the potenial of loosing some oil would still be there but it would be reduced considerably and directly related to the size of the line itself.
any thoughts?
I have a question for everyone. Is there any reason the line has to be +/- 5/8' I.D.? Pressure is pressure I am sure the Yamaha enginers are a lot smarter then i am (it might be proven with this post) and have their reasons for making it as big as they did but, air pressure will flow through an 1/8'' line as easy as it will through a 1" line. Yes there is more volume of air moving through the bigger line but the primary function is to balance air pressure and we are not talking a huge pressure difference here. The only thing i can think of is that a bigger line is less likely to be pinched off which would cause problems obviously Since these things use such light oil w0-30, the oil would flow slower through a smaller line as opposed to a larger one
Does anyone see why you could not reduce the size of the line so in the case of a roll-over the oil would still leak out but not nearly as quick So you would not loose as much oil or even none at all depending how fast you can get the sled turned over. the potenial of loosing some oil would still be there but it would be reduced considerably and directly related to the size of the line itself.
any thoughts?
woodsrider
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
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basic physics: pressure is created by a resistance to flow. the greater the flow through a given line the greater the pressure drop through the given line. I'd say the vent line was sized to prevent excessive back pressure to the case. making the line smaller will increase the case pressure. if in fact you hooked an 1/8" line to the vent it would let some air out, but the back pressure would effectively act as a "plug" in the line.
another thing i found works great, and no oil lost yet. i installed ulmers air filter kit, it comes with two small uni filters, one goes on the air pressure sensor hose, and one goes on the oil breather, and oil resi hose (has a 90* elbow added to one of the filters). when i installed this, i never would have dreamed it would help the oil loss issue but it does.
i actually just today ordered another one of the filters with the elbow to install on my wife's stocker to avoid the oil loss. all you do is pull the resi tube and crankcase vent hoses from the air box and hook them to the filter and elbow assy.
when the sled is over on its side, or upside down. the filter acts as a pass though and oil goes to or from motor or resi. when it is righted, the oil goes where it should, and the filter continues to vent correctly. ski
i actually just today ordered another one of the filters with the elbow to install on my wife's stocker to avoid the oil loss. all you do is pull the resi tube and crankcase vent hoses from the air box and hook them to the filter and elbow assy.
when the sled is over on its side, or upside down. the filter acts as a pass though and oil goes to or from motor or resi. when it is righted, the oil goes where it should, and the filter continues to vent correctly. ski
Muleskinner
Veteran
I'm not quite sure how the filter would prevent the oil from leaking out. Unless it is plugging the filter off and not allowing flow through. Might be a cause of backpressure after this happens?
it is flow through in the center so in theory it just is a bypass, it could push oil out of the mesh after saturation i suppose but, so far alot of testing, and 2 trips... no leaks and the sled has been on its side plenty.
the filter is there for the crank vent as the pulse is reversed periodically in the charge, blowing outward for the most part. the filter prevents the motor from sucking in dirt or snow on the reverse pulse.
a by product of how the filter and elbow act is keeping oil out of the engine bay and between the crank vent hose, and the oil resi. ski
the filter is there for the crank vent as the pulse is reversed periodically in the charge, blowing outward for the most part. the filter prevents the motor from sucking in dirt or snow on the reverse pulse.
a by product of how the filter and elbow act is keeping oil out of the engine bay and between the crank vent hose, and the oil resi. ski
bholmlate
Expert
woodsrider
I understand your point basically the principle of hydraulics, but the only pressure in the oil tank is the pressure difference between the scavenger pump pumping the oil back to the tank and the oil being pulled from the tank by the oil pump feeding the engine and the breather line only comes into play when there is a difference in pressure. Also the expansion of air do to heat as the motor oil heats up is also a factor. unless of course as you mentioned they are using the oil tnk as a breather for the case.
Do they have a breather line running from the case to the oil tank? I think there are only two lines connected to the tank an inlet and an outlet. could be wrong =)
Skidooboy. I believe your idea is similar to TTABS http://www.ty4stroke.com/viewtopic.php?t=57691 except he used a fuel filter. However he was warned not to use the filter because once the filter elements gets plugged with oil air no longer will flow through the filter.
I understand your point basically the principle of hydraulics, but the only pressure in the oil tank is the pressure difference between the scavenger pump pumping the oil back to the tank and the oil being pulled from the tank by the oil pump feeding the engine and the breather line only comes into play when there is a difference in pressure. Also the expansion of air do to heat as the motor oil heats up is also a factor. unless of course as you mentioned they are using the oil tnk as a breather for the case.
Do they have a breather line running from the case to the oil tank? I think there are only two lines connected to the tank an inlet and an outlet. could be wrong =)
Skidooboy. I believe your idea is similar to TTABS http://www.ty4stroke.com/viewtopic.php?t=57691 except he used a fuel filter. However he was warned not to use the filter because once the filter elements gets plugged with oil air no longer will flow through the filter.
this is a mesh exterior filter, it cant get plugged like an enclosed exterior fuel filter. you can actually here the air pressure hissing when it is venting the crank case. like i said it could get saturated and leak at somepoint but, for the most part it hasnt yet.
this filter set up was not designed to eliminate the oil leak upon the sled being flipped or on its side. it is a side effect. unlike the ttabs filter issue, this filter has a tube fitting on both ends that allows the fluid to free flow between the crank vent and the resi. the filter is for intake reverse charge to eliminate debris from getting into the oil. it could get enough oil in the filter to make the pressure push it out but it wont be near the amount of oil that goes everywhere now.
the filter is part of an intake kit from ulmer racing that filters the crank/oil resi vapors and pressure, and another filter filters the air intake for the the idle air speed breather. instead of having them in the air box. you do this when using the k&n filter kit.
goto www.ulmerracing.com look up instructions, scroll down to the fx nytro k&n and you can see the filters i am talking about and how they are installed. may make more sense then my giberish.
again my find wasnt designed to eliminate the oil leak issue, it is just a side effect. and what i have learned after installing the k&n filter kit. ski
this filter set up was not designed to eliminate the oil leak upon the sled being flipped or on its side. it is a side effect. unlike the ttabs filter issue, this filter has a tube fitting on both ends that allows the fluid to free flow between the crank vent and the resi. the filter is for intake reverse charge to eliminate debris from getting into the oil. it could get enough oil in the filter to make the pressure push it out but it wont be near the amount of oil that goes everywhere now.
the filter is part of an intake kit from ulmer racing that filters the crank/oil resi vapors and pressure, and another filter filters the air intake for the the idle air speed breather. instead of having them in the air box. you do this when using the k&n filter kit.
goto www.ulmerracing.com look up instructions, scroll down to the fx nytro k&n and you can see the filters i am talking about and how they are installed. may make more sense then my giberish.
again my find wasnt designed to eliminate the oil leak issue, it is just a side effect. and what i have learned after installing the k&n filter kit. ski
bholmlate
Expert
Hey Skidooboy
Yes i did see that kit from Ulmer racing previously and it looked very interesting.
I may end up going that route as well. Have you has any issues with it to speak of?
I just wanted to point that issue out with the other filter just in case someone had the idea of just sticking a cheap filter on the line I would hate for someone to pop their motor because they were trying to save a little money.
Yes i did see that kit from Ulmer racing previously and it looked very interesting.
I may end up going that route as well. Have you has any issues with it to speak of? I just wanted to point that issue out with the other filter just in case someone had the idea of just sticking a cheap filter on the line I would hate for someone to pop their motor because they were trying to save a little money.
no problem, i understand you were posting for the masses to learn and read into the mod further, to avoid a big problem.
no problems with the ulmer kit at all. install was easy and straight forward, has alittle louder intake noise now but that is all. motor breathes easier from what i can tell. ski
no problems with the ulmer kit at all. install was easy and straight forward, has alittle louder intake noise now but that is all. motor breathes easier from what i can tell. ski
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