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OW40 oil

Mills said:
Rockerdan after seeing your post I did some more digging into oil viscosity, shear load....
I am now going to switch from 0W40 euro Mobile1 to 5W30 euro Mobile1. Thanks for your info, it got me motivated to dig deeper.
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What are your rod and main bearing clearances?
 

IMO viscosity stability is a big deal on this engine. Try to put your fingers on your oil tank after you've been running hard. Not sure how hot the oil is coming back from engine, but I can't hold my hand on oil tank. And, that's after the oil has gone through the oil cooler! I want to put a oil temp gage on my sled to find out but I bet the returning oil is approaching 200F. The oil lines pass close to the muffler too and that doesn't help. I've got my lines and tanks all reflective heat insulated but it still gets mighty hot after miles of high boost. A full synthetic oil does tolerate high temps better and all oils thin as they heat up. So to CM's point, we have to take all this into account if we're thinking about running a thinner oil.
 
High shear load is good but only one part of the puzzle. Viscosity is king when it comes to oil selection, shear load characteristics are secondary. You could have super high shear load characteristics on an oil but if your oil pressure is low due to excessive bearing clearances it’s useless
 
You can watch oil pressure live on the display. I was surprised when I first watched it. Fully warmed up and riding down a lake at 6500 - 7000 oil pressure was about 70lbs. 998 has a huge chain-driven oil pump. Several times I have purged my engine oil (I won't go into why) by unhooking the return line at the tank and starting the engine. OMG. It will pump 3 qts out in less than 10 secs!
 
ClutchMaster said:
Your ultimate decision on what weight oil to use really is determined by testing and wear analysis. You want to run the lowest viscosity possible without sustaining excess engine wear. You also need to take into consideration what your bearing clearances are set too. Running a slightly heavier weight oil like a 0w-40 opposed to 0w-30 is not much of a difference.
The very small amount of horsepower gained wouldn’t really be noticed imo. The 0w-40 would protect better when at operating temperature. The 0w-40 really is a win/win situation because the Viscosity Index is higher. This means the oil viscosity stays more consistent as the temperature changes. The 0w-40 has similar startup protection and better temperature stability for increased protection when at temperature. 0w-20 is more of a mileage oil, and if you run it you had better be sure your motor is tight and has very little bearing wear, not recommended for a higher mileage motor 4 sure. Running an oil with a lower viscosity than recommend can really get you into trouble fast. On the other hand running an oil with a slightly higher viscosity really won’t harm you, but cold starts might be more difficult along with increased startup wear. Plain and simple the full synthetic has a higher viscosity index and that coupled along with higher breakdown temperatures make it the better choice of oil for any engine. Especially a turbo because of the high heat the oil will see when passing through the turbo.
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At this point im more concerned about protecting the motor and the 20 yr warranty where can we find out if yamaha changed there recommendations from 0w30 to 0w40?
 
Running Junk Yamaha oil is simply a way of YAM to get a guy to BUY their oil. I have to laugh at this 20 yr warranty thing. Such a marketing ploy.

I would run the best oil I can full stop. It just so happens the 5w30 M1 at Walmart is also dirt cheap, so I am not gonna argue with that....lol

Been running M1 for so many yrs without issue in many toys.

I will say, I ran 0w20 REDLINE oil in my '06 Apex for it's entire life, along with their lightweight shockproof gear oil in chaincase, and that sled would run 120GPS(ice) on perfect days. 1'' predator track and a pro-line clutch kit with my own ram air was all it had(ran those speeds before my powercommander) and I attribute that to the lighter viscosity.

I did make the mistake of adding 0w40 to my 1200 one season and sure enough she was down on speed.

Bottom line, I highly doubt ANYONE will see a 4s failure that can be directly related to oil brand.

Dan
 
ROCKERDAN said:
Running Junk Yamaha oil is simply a way of YAM to get a guy to BUY their oil. I have to laugh at this 20 yr warranty thing. Such a marketing ploy.

I would run the best oil I can full stop. It just so happens the 5w30 M1 at Walmart is also dirt cheap, so I am not gonna argue with that....lol

Been running M1 for so many yrs without issue in many toys.

I will say, I ran 0w20 REDLINE oil in my '06 Apex for it's entire life, along with their lightweight shockproof gear oil in chaincase, and that sled would run 120GPS(ice) on perfect days. 1'' predator track and a pro-line clutch kit with my own ram air was all it had(ran those speeds before my powercommander) and I attribute that to the lighter viscosity.

I did make the mistake of adding 0w40 to my 1200 one season and sure enough she was down on speed.

Bottom line, I highly doubt ANYONE will see a 4s failure that can be directly related to oil brand.

Dan
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Dan im starting to think like you and just start running mobile 1 again ran it for 12 years in my apex with no troubles.Is yamalube that bad do you have any msds on it?
yamahaguy said:
I don't care about a 20-year warranty. Think about what you were riding 20 years ago and would you be happy riding it today? nope!
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Ya i married it,LOL
 
74Nitro said:
Exactly, and do we really think Yamaha(or any manufacturer) would come good for warranty on an 18 year old sled?
Do pigs fly?
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Yes seen it first hand at the pink floyd concert
 
Mills said:
No idea
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My point exactly. It’s basically a guessing game then. You can use oil pressure as a guide but nobody really knows how efficient the oiling system is. The rule of thumb is 10 psi per 1000 rpm but that’s subjective to actual pressure at the rod bearings and how well the crankshaft brings the pressure over to the rods. Not a big deal with NA motors. Once you start boosting and extreme cylinder pressures/rod stresses things don’t stay perfectly round, mix in some occasional detonation and you could run into trouble, especially with the rod bearings.
running big tunes I would not run a 0w-20 oil just not a good idea IMO. That said not all oils are created equal in viscosity even if they both say 5w-30 on the bottle. Most full synthetic oils will have a better viscosity index than the semi syn’s, meaning they will protect better at both ends of the spectrum. The fact that many snowmobiles with be outside in extreme temperatures a high VI index oil can’t hurt matters IMO.
 
ClutchMaster said:
My point exactly. It’s basically a guessing game then. You can use oil pressure as a guide but nobody really knows how efficient the oiling system is. The rule of thumb is 10 psi per 1000 rpm but that’s subjective to actual pressure at the rod bearings and how well the crankshaft brings the pressure over to the rods. Not a big deal with NA motors. Once you start boosting and extreme cylinder pressures/rod stresses things don’t stay perfectly round, mix in some occasional detonation and you could run into trouble, especially with the rod bearings.
running big tunes I would not run a 0w-20 oil just not a good idea IMO. That said not all oils are created equal in viscosity even if they both say 5w-30 on the bottle. Most full synthetic oils will have a better viscosity index than the semi syn’s, meaning they will protect better at both ends of the spectrum. The fact that many snowmobiles with be outside in extreme temperatures a high VI index oil can’t hurt matters IMO.
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Nice information, what oil do you recomend we should run in these sidewinders
 
Redline 10w-30 racing oil has lots of zinc and phosphorus. This is what I run.

Mobile 1 0w-30 racing oil has a phenomenal viscosity index!!!
https://www.mobil.com/english-us/passenger-vehicle-lube/pds/glxxmobil-1-racing-oils

Mobil 1 FS 0w-40 awsome viscosity index! Just not super high zinc and phosphorus but still at elevated levels. Designed for European sports cars. It’s the best 0w-40 in the mobile 1 lineup IMO.

Any of these oils offer great protection at extreme temperatures and the elevated levels of zinc and phosphorus will protect parts if the oil film gets too thin.

The M1 0w-30 and the 10w-30 redline are virtually the same viscosity at high and low temperatures but on is rated 0w-30 and the other is 10w-30
:dunno:
 
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