Primary weight options for a tune

[fourbarrel]

I'm leaning really hard towards putting a tune in my'19 SRX this fall,a TD trail tune and what was recommended was the 270.I'll be changing the weights in the primary and Dalton QAY-70's were the ones mentioned I should get.But I figure there's enough people on this forum that have the years of running tunes and could maybe add another option I could look at.I am quite familiar with tuning weights,been doing it for many years on my 2 stroke sleds.I see Thunder Products have weights available but are there others that work as well or better? I'll be running the Dalton B/O secondary spring with the stock helix for now and I have plans to swap the top gear to a 22 and likely a stock mod muffler.

 

[Turboflash]

I'm leaning really hard towards putting a tune in my'19 SRX this fall,a TD trail tune and what was recommended was the 270.I'll be changing the weights in the primary and Dalton QAY-70's were the ones mentioned I should get.But I figure there's enough people on this forum that have the years of running tunes and could maybe add another option I could look at.I am quite familiar with tuning weights,been doing it for many years on my 2 stroke sleds.I see Thunder Products have weights available but are there others that work as well or better? I'll be running the Dalton B/O secondary spring with the stock helix for now and I have plans to swap the top gear to a 22 and likely a stock mod muffler.

Do what it needs. Vast majority of tunes out there make peak HP at about 8900-9000. Clutch accordingly.

 

[74Nitro]

I'm leaning really hard towards putting a tune in my'19 SRX this fall,a TD trail tune and what was recommended was the 270.I'll be changing the weights in the primary and Dalton QAY-70's were the ones mentioned I should get.But I figure there's enough people on this forum that have the years of running tunes and could maybe add another option I could look at.I am quite familiar with tuning weights,been doing it for many years on my 2 stroke sleds.I see Thunder Products have weights available but are there others that work as well or better? I'll be running the Dalton B/O secondary spring with the stock helix for now and I have plans to swap the top gear to a 22 and likely a stock mod muffler.

Powertrail is 250 and max spool 16 is 260, assuming no other mods

 

[twyztid]

I run ALL Thunder Products clutching on my 17 LTX SE with TF PowerTrail tune and it is working great.

 

[Motorhead]

When the first version of TD Max Spool 16 (2 bar) came out, it was advertised as 260hp. Later on they came out with the Max Spool 16 3 bar tune and advertised that as 270hp. So people use both of those numbers when referring to TD MS16 tunes.
I’ve had both, and the only reason that I did a cheap upgrade to the 3 bar tune, was so I could read the tunes boost level accurately, when over 15-16 lbs. I was told back then that the 2 bar tune is not as accurate over certain boost pressures because the 2 bar sensor cannot read over 15-16 accurately, so it simply adds fuel over that point, whereas the 3 bar can read and add precisely the needed fuel in that range! But those are two separate tunes.

I have used stock springs on both clutches and simply added weight to the tip of the primary stock weights
My secondary pocket had been machined.070” to avoid the coil bind of that stock spring, and an added 35/39 Dalton helix was installed to help keep the revs down when WOT. Also used both belts, 8JP and the XS825, and that is also another way of changing revs.

If using Dalton QAY 70 gram base weights for that 270 TDTune, you will also need a Dalton primary spring if you want to keep engagement at lower levels. Might as well go with both Dalton primary and secondary spring at that point!

I like the lower engagement on my set up. I find it hard on a trailer surface during loading and unloading when engagement is over a certain point, and a good set up allows for low cruising revs for good mpg, yet allows for 9000 at WOT.

Dalton does reference the stock Winder primary spring force, so you can compare when making a decision on which one you want!

Good luck and enjoy your upcoming added power. TD 270 is a very noticeable increase after the 6K rpm, even though it is still mild tune. Also needs a BOV added. Or you may be talking about the TD Power Trail tune, I have no experience with that one though, but about the same hp I think!

Decisions decisions!!

 

[SideHogger]

When the first version of TD Max Spool 16 (2 bar) came out, it was advertised as 260hp. Later on they came out with the Max Spool 16 3 bar tune and advertised that as 270hp. So people use both of those numbers when referring to TD MS16 tunes.
I’ve had both, and the only reason that I did a cheap upgrade to the 3 bar tune, was so I could read the tunes boost level accurately, when over 15-16 lbs. I was told back then that the 2 bar tune is not as accurate over certain boost pressures because the 2 bar sensor cannot read over 15-16 accurately, so it simply adds fuel over that point, whereas the 3 bar can read and add precisely the needed fuel in that range! But those are two separate tunes.

I have used stock springs on both clutches and simply added weight to the tip of the primary stock weights
My secondary pocket had been machined.070” to avoid the coil bind of that stock spring, and an added 35/39 Dalton helix was installed to help keep the revs down when WOT. Also used both belts, 8JP and the XS825, and that is also another way of changing revs.

If using Dalton QAY 70 gram base weights for that 270 TDTune, you will also need a Dalton primary spring if you want to keep engagement at lower levels. Might as well go with both Dalton primary and secondary spring at that point!

I like the lower engagement on my set up. I find it hard on a trailer surface during loading and unloading when engagement is over a certain point, and a good set up allows for low cruising revs for good mpg, yet allows for 9000 at WOT.

Dalton does reference the stock Winder primary spring force, so you can compare when making a decision on which one you want!

Good luck and enjoy your upcoming added power. TD 270 is a very noticeable increase after the 6K rpm, even though it is still mild tune. Also needs a BOV added. Or you may be talking about the TD Power Trail tune, I have no experience with that one though, but about the same hp I think!

Decisions decisions!!

What primary spring are you using?

 

[twyztid]

Good luck and enjoy your upcoming added power. TD 270 is a very noticeable increase after the 6K rpm, even though it is still mild tune. Also needs a BOV added. Or you may be talking about the TD Power Trail tune, I have no experience with that one though, but about the same hp I think!

Decisions decisions!!

The 270hp TD PowerTrail tune doesn't NEED a BOV. It will run fine with the stock one but many, including myself, have upgraded to the Turbosmart BOV.

 

[Motorhead]

What primary spring are you using?

Stock primary spring works well if you add about 1.5 gram to tip! That’s done by drilling out your stock weights, and then adding new 4.5gram rivets with an added 1.5 gram washer while installing all! That combination worked best for me with a 35/39 helix. The helix helps with WOT over rev! Secondary setting at 6/1 is my fav!

Problem with stock primary spring, they break after 4-5K miles, so this year I also tried an old set up from my MS16 2 bar days.The Yamaha Blue Brown Blue with stock weights and no extra added to tip. That set up likes the stock helix for the added revs, it didn’t like pulling the 35/39, again belts are a big difference with WOT revs!

Note: not all primary weights are the same on all years of the winder! My 17 came with the 8LR ramps and heaviest rivets (17.2mm) or 4.5 gram on all three holes!

Some come with 8KC Ramps and last River is a very light aluminum!

With that said, you see why many go the way of Daltons or other easy to adjust ramp/weights…

 

[Motorhead]

The 270hp TD PowerTrail tune doesn't NEED a BOV. It will run fine with the stock one but many, including myself, have upgraded to the Turbosmart BOV.

Many that were doing leak tests during the first years of the 998, were reporting that the stock BOV had a tendency to leak at 15 lbs and higher! So the very light tunes like eco trail which did not reach 15 were ok with stock BOV!

My MS16 3 bar runs at 17.2 - 17.5 mostly!
Some times it may go a bit lower or higher depending on day!

 

[twyztid]

Many that were doing leak tests during the first years of the 998, were reporting that the stock BOV had a tendency to leak at 15 lbs and higher! So the very light tunes like eco trail which did not reach 15 were ok with stock BOV!

My MS16 3 bar runs at 17.2 - 17.5 mostly!
Some times it may go a bit lower or higher depending on day!

My TD PowerTrail runs 15.8-16.0 after it settles down. I had no issues with my stock BOV but installed a TurboSmart when the sled had 850 miles on it... just because. It appears that the PowerTrail tune produces the same (or more) HP as the MS16 3-bar... but with less boost (270-275hp range with a 3" exhaust & CAI).

 

[Motorhead]

My TD PowerTrail runs 15.8-16.0 after it settles down. I had no issues with my stock BOV but installed a TurboSmart when the sled had 850 miles on it... just because. It appears that the PowerTrail tune produces the same (or more) HP as the MS16 3-bar... but with less boost (270-275hp range with a 3" exhaust & CAI).

Is the power trail a 3 bar tune?

Reason I ask, both the MS16 2 bar and 3 bar tunes run the same lbs of boost, as I understand it. But with a 2 bar tune anything over 15 -16 lbs, will not show full amount because it can’t. The stock 2 bar will not read accurately over a certain amount, thus, my 16 2 bar tune use to show 15.9 -16.2 whereas the 16 3 bar tune shows the full over 17 lbs.

So what does TD state as far as boost level for PowerTrail?

Very interesting huh, I was going to upgrade to that tune years ago from the EcoTrail, but the MS16 came out and I heard from both dealer and TD to go there instead!

 

[twyztid]

Is the power trail a 3 bar tune?

Reason I ask, both the MS16 2 bar and 3 bar tunes run the same lbs of boost, as I understand it. But with a 2 bar tune anything over 15 -16 lbs, will not show full amount because it can’t. The stock 2 bar will not read accurately over a certain amount, thus, my 16 2 bar tune use to show 15.9 -16.2 whereas the 16 3 bar tune shows the full over 17 lbs.

So what does TD state as far as boost level for PowerTrail?

Very interesting huh, I was going to upgrade to that tune years ago from the EcoTrail, but the MS16 came out and I heard from both dealer and TD to go there instead!

No, it uses the stock 2-bar and I was told that the boost range I am seeing is normal for the Power Trail.

 

[Motorhead]

No, it uses the stock 2-bar and I was told that the boost range I am seeing is normal for the Power Trail.

View attachment 167893

Tunes have changed since they first came out. For instance, both of TD’s first tunes, Eco trail and Power trail tunes needed muffler upgrades back then.
Stock muffler tunes came out on the 2cnd year of tunes I think!

So your saying your Power Trail tune makes 275 hp with stock muffler and 87- 91 octane, or is it need some sort of non stock muffler to get that hp?

 

[twyztid]

Tunes have changed since they first came out. For instance, both of TD’s first tunes, Eco trail and Power trail tunes needed muffler upgrades back then.
Stock muffler tunes came out on the 2cnd year of tunes I think!

So your saying your Power Trail tune makes 275 hp with stock muffler and 87- 91 octane, or is it need some sort of non stock muffler to get that hp?

No. No chance you'll get there with stock muffler and stock airbox. You'll see in the pic that a Power Trail can be up to 275hp with a CAI and their 3" Turbo Force exhaust. I am running the CAI and their 3" Super Quiet exhaust (which is about 2hp less than the Turbo Force, according to their website)

 

[fourbarrel]

When the first version of TD Max Spool 16 (2 bar) came out, it was advertised as 260hp. Later on they came out with the Max Spool 16 3 bar tune and advertised that as 270hp. So people use both of those numbers when referring to TD MS16 tunes.
I’ve had both, and the only reason that I did a cheap upgrade to the 3 bar tune, was so I could read the tunes boost level accurately, when over 15-16 lbs. I was told back then that the 2 bar tune is not as accurate over certain boost pressures because the 2 bar sensor cannot read over 15-16 accurately, so it simply adds fuel over that point, whereas the 3 bar can read and add precisely the needed fuel in that range! But those are two separate tunes.

I have used stock springs on both clutches and simply added weight to the tip of the primary stock weights
My secondary pocket had been machined.070” to avoid the coil bind of that stock spring, and an added 35/39 Dalton helix was installed to help keep the revs down when WOT. Also used both belts, 8JP and the XS825, and that is also another way of changing revs.

If using Dalton QAY 70 gram base weights for that 270 TDTune, you will also need a Dalton primary spring if you want to keep engagement at lower levels. Might as well go with both Dalton primary and secondary spring at that point!

I like the lower engagement on my set up. I find it hard on a trailer surface during loading and unloading when engagement is over a certain point, and a good set up allows for low cruising revs for good mpg, yet allows for 9000 at WOT.

Dalton does reference the stock Winder primary spring force, so you can compare when making a decision on which one you want!

Good luck and enjoy your upcoming added power. TD 270 is a very noticeable increase after the 6K rpm, even though it is still mild tune. Also needs a BOV added. Or you may be talking about the TD Power Trail tune, I have no experience with that one though, but about the same hp I think!

Decisions decisions!!

I will likely change the primary spring too as I'd like to keep the engagement around the stock level and I see good things about the XS825 belt so I may just try that next winter too.The guy here in NB that is the TD rep told me the 270 Power Trail tune is what would work best for me.I don't need to push the limits,I'm really only looking to add the tune so I can run the muffler mod and get better fuel mileage out of the sled.I told him I didn't want to get into changing the BOV or have to monitor the A/F ratio all the time,just start it and go.