Real World 1500 Mile Low Down of new Ski Doo XR-S 900 Turbo vs. SideWinder

[Shagnos]

The point I’m trying to make is the 900t is almost a square motor, all stroke and tiny bore.
A ninja 900 4 cylinder has bigger pistons than the 900t and it’s a three cylinder.
After looking at the specs on this motor it’s a hopeless POS as far as making it fast. The tiny bore restricts the valve size, this makes it horrible for any kind of performance engine.
There’s a lot of tractors out there with a better bore to stroke ratio than this thing.

Totally agree.

 

[VX1R]

If you're reading this thread you probably own a SideWinder. When Yamaha first introduced this sled/motor package a few years ago I tried to get all of the info that I could on this stellar motor. There's been a lot of talk on this thread recently about motors, horsepower, and torque. Here's some marketing info that Yamaha put out when they first introduced the SideWinder. Simply said there isn't anything close to this motor in the snowmobiling industry, and I seriously doubt that there ever will be.....

2017 Snowmobile - Yamaha Power

GENESIS 998 TURBO ENGINE
We listened, we designed and then we tested. The new Genesis 998 Turbo engine is a product of our dedication to bringing the most advanced, high performance engines to the snowmobile industry. With more horsepower than any production engine in the history of our performance-obsessed sport, we are confident when we say the Sidewinder has the Power to Satisfy. Combine that with Yamaha’s fanatical dedication to durability and reliability, and we are doubly confident when we tell you that the Sidewinder will deliver Round-Trip Reliability.

Everything about the Sidewinder’s engine is pure Yamaha engineering—from the intake, to the large-finned intercooler to the spec of the high tech IHI ceramic bearing turbo unit to the high tech engine management system to the exhaust. Our master engine engineers engineered this engine from a blank sheet to give you the performance you would expect from a Yamaha turbo sled. The side-mounted turbo unit allows short pressure tubes for razor-sharp response. Our triple throttle bodies are a first in production turbo engines, regardless of industry. Not even the exotic car manufacturers go to this length to deliver crisp, right-now performance!

We have staked our reputation on quality, durability and reliability—more commonly referred to as Yamaha Quality. The 998 Turbo engine package carries a full suite of features to ensure you have a great day on the snow and a fun night when you reach your destination. We use our advanced nine-sensor engine management system to control fuel flow for maximum performance, but it also incorporates a knock sensor to adjust ignition timing and even manifold pressure if the need should arise. We developed the crank and rods to handle the amazingly high torque load of the 998 Turbo. We even redesigned the oil tank for optimal oil flow when the Sidewinder’s nose is elevated.

Yamaha has well over a decade of experience in harnessing the unique power delivery of a high performance four stroke engine. For the hyper performance Sidewinder, we have developed a new YSRC roller secondary system to deliver aggressive upshifting while also backshifting quickly to keep you in the power. In addition, we slightly upsized the new secondary to overshift and let the Sidewinder stretch its legs on a long lake run.

From intake to exhaust, and through the driveline, the new Sidewinder is engineered by Yamaha to deliver the Power to Satisfy, with Roundtrip Reliability!

High Tech Turbo
The Nickel alloy turbine body is extremely strong and precise, able to withstand highly elevated temperatures. Supported by premium, ceramic ball bearings, the Inconel turbine blade assembly is very light and strong. This yields a low moment of inertia for lightening quick response to exhaust gas input.

Connecting Rod
Special, light weight, hardened carburized steel connecting rod design has the optimum strength required to produce maximum power. This new turbo-specific rod design uses nutted studs to join the close-tolerance, machined-faced big end. The rods are also treated with a special Defric coating for cold start protection, to ensure long life and maximum reliability.

Mitsubishi® ECU
The Yamaha-developed Mitsubishi® ECU uses a series of 9 sensors to gather running condition data and computes using its predetermined memory ‘map’. It then adjusts ignition timing, fuel delivery, manifold air-pressure and turbo boost pressure to produce maximum performance and reliability.

Forged Pistons
The forged aluminum pistons are formed without melting the original aluminum stock, so they retain the strength of the original solidification structure, which enables the design of a lighter piston. The forging process also allows Yamaha to control material thickness to reduce weight by eliminating unnecessary material while still maintaining high strength. A form optimized scraper ring provides maximum protection against oil consumption and blow-by.

Piston Cooler
The Genesis Turbo engine features a unique piston cooling system. Oil is sprayed directly at the underside of the pistons through special jets to help cool and lubricate them. Cooling the pistons helps ensure maximum reliability from this premium, ultimate performance Yamaha engine.

Triple Throttle Bodies
Yamaha engineers wanted to develop a turbo so smooth and so quick to respond that it doesn’t feel like a conventional turbo. One of the ways they achieved their goal was to develop the intake system using three separate throttle bodies instead of just one— something that is not seen in any other production turbo on the planet. And another first for Yamaha with the Genesis turbo.

Exhaust Manifold
Yamaha engineers designed a unique cast steel 3 into 1 manifold to precisely match the chassis and turbo mounting layout to help create the shortest path possible to the turbine. This compact component is connected to the turbine by a short, vibration-isolating tube. This results in exhaust energy being transferred very efficiently to the turbine for instant response to the slightest throttle input.

I simply can't see another snowmobile OEM bringing out another motor of this caliber with the current state of affairs in the snowmobile industry. Kudos to the Yamaha marketing and design team who developed this package and the factory brass who signed off on it.

 

[YukonMP]

If you're reading this thread you probably own a SideWinder.

Or wish we did.

 

[VX1R]

Or wish we did.

Well get with the program!

 

[ClutchMaster]

If you're reading this thread you probably own a SideWinder. When Yamaha first introduced this sled/motor package a few years ago I tried to get all of the info that I could on this stellar motor. There's been a lot of talk on this thread recently about motors, horsepower, and torque. Here's some marketing info that Yamaha put out when they first introduced the SideWinder. Simply said there isn't anything close to this motor in the snowmobiling industry, and I seriously doubt that there ever will be.....

2017 Snowmobile - Yamaha Power

View attachment 148724

GENESIS 998 TURBO ENGINE
We listened, we designed and then we tested. The new Genesis 998 Turbo engine is a product of our dedication to bringing the most advanced, high performance engines to the snowmobile industry. With more horsepower than any production engine in the history of our performance-obsessed sport, we are confident when we say the Sidewinder has the Power to Satisfy. Combine that with Yamaha’s fanatical dedication to durability and reliability, and we are doubly confident when we tell you that the Sidewinder will deliver Round-Trip Reliability.

Everything about the Sidewinder’s engine is pure Yamaha engineering—from the intake, to the large-finned intercooler to the spec of the high tech IHI ceramic bearing turbo unit to the high tech engine management system to the exhaust. Our master engine engineers engineered this engine from a blank sheet to give you the performance you would expect from a Yamaha turbo sled. The side-mounted turbo unit allows short pressure tubes for razor-sharp response. Our triple throttle bodies are a first in production turbo engines, regardless of industry. Not even the exotic car manufacturers go to this length to deliver crisp, right-now performance!

We have staked our reputation on quality, durability and reliability—more commonly referred to as Yamaha Quality. The 998 Turbo engine package carries a full suite of features to ensure you have a great day on the snow and a fun night when you reach your destination. We use our advanced nine-sensor engine management system to control fuel flow for maximum performance, but it also incorporates a knock sensor to adjust ignition timing and even manifold pressure if the need should arise. We developed the crank and rods to handle the amazingly high torque load of the 998 Turbo. We even redesigned the oil tank for optimal oil flow when the Sidewinder’s nose is elevated.

Yamaha has well over a decade of experience in harnessing the unique power delivery of a high performance four stroke engine. For the hyper performance Sidewinder, we have developed a new YSRC roller secondary system to deliver aggressive upshifting while also backshifting quickly to keep you in the power. In addition, we slightly upsized the new secondary to overshift and let the Sidewinder stretch its legs on a long lake run.

From intake to exhaust, and through the driveline, the new Sidewinder is engineered by Yamaha to deliver the Power to Satisfy, with Roundtrip Reliability!
View attachment 148725

High Tech Turbo
The Nickel alloy turbine body is extremely strong and precise, able to withstand highly elevated temperatures. Supported by premium, ceramic ball bearings, the Inconel turbine blade assembly is very light and strong. This yields a low moment of inertia for lightening quick response to exhaust gas input.
View attachment 148726
Connecting Rod
Special, light weight, hardened carburized steel connecting rod design has the optimum strength required to produce maximum power. This new turbo-specific rod design uses nutted studs to join the close-tolerance, machined-faced big end. The rods are also treated with a special Defric coating for cold start protection, to ensure long life and maximum reliability.
View attachment 148727
Mitsubishi® ECU
The Yamaha-developed Mitsubishi® ECU uses a series of 9 sensors to gather running condition data and computes using its predetermined memory ‘map’. It then adjusts ignition timing, fuel delivery, manifold air-pressure and turbo boost pressure to produce maximum performance and reliability.
View attachment 148728
Forged Pistons
The forged aluminum pistons are formed without melting the original aluminum stock, so they retain the strength of the original solidification structure, which enables the design of a lighter piston. The forging process also allows Yamaha to control material thickness to reduce weight by eliminating unnecessary material while still maintaining high strength. A form optimized scraper ring provides maximum protection against oil consumption and blow-by.
View attachment 148729
Piston Cooler
The Genesis Turbo engine features a unique piston cooling system. Oil is sprayed directly at the underside of the pistons through special jets to help cool and lubricate them. Cooling the pistons helps ensure maximum reliability from this premium, ultimate performance Yamaha engine.
View attachment 148731
Triple Throttle Bodies
Yamaha engineers wanted to develop a turbo so smooth and so quick to respond that it doesn’t feel like a conventional turbo. One of the ways they achieved their goal was to develop the intake system using three separate throttle bodies instead of just one— something that is not seen in any other production turbo on the planet. And another first for Yamaha with the Genesis turbo.
View attachment 148732
Exhaust Manifold
Yamaha engineers designed a unique cast steel 3 into 1 manifold to precisely match the chassis and turbo mounting layout to help create the shortest path possible to the turbine. This compact component is connected to the turbine by a short, vibration-isolating tube. This results in exhaust energy being transferred very efficiently to the turbine for instant response to the slightest throttle input.
View attachment 148733

I simply can't see another snowmobile OEM bringing out another motor of this caliber with the current state of affairs in the snowmobile industry. Kudos to the Yamaha marketing and design team who developed this package and the factory brass who signed off on it.
View attachment 148734

That’s all fine and dandy ^^^^^
The Sidewinder is the best high performance sled right now 4 sure. they are really beating their chest about a couple improvements from the older 1049cc Viper/Nytro motor. Not much really changed. They make the turbo sound as if it’s state of the art, well it’s just an IHI with a cast wheel, If they wanted the best technology, a Borg Warner EFR or a Garrett unit should have been used.
Of course they are going to talk it up, read this garbage ski-doo says about the 900t.

https://snowgoer.com/top-stories/tech-2019-ski-doo-shares-secrets-behind-900-ace-turbo-development/

 

[VX1R]

That’s all fine and dandy ^^^^^
The Sidewinder is the best high performance sled right now 4 sure. they are really beating their chest about a couple improvements from the older 1049cc Viper/Nytro motor. Not much really changed. They make the turbo sound as if it’s state of the art, well it’s just an IHI with a cast wheel, If they wanted the best technology, a Borg Warner EFR or a Garrett unit should have been used.
Of course they are going to talk it up, read this garbage ski-doo says about the 900t.

I agree with you about their choice of using the IHI turbo, but I'm pretty sure the bean counters at Yamaha HQ probably had a say in that. At the time when they developed the SW motor package I'll bet that they probably chose the IHI turbo because of the cost, availability, and no other OEM had anything close in HP, so why use the best and most expensive technology if you can accomplish what you're looking for at a lower cost? They left a lot of improvements on this motor package available for the aftermarket, and it didn't take much time for the aftermarket to jump all over this new market.

 

[KnappAttack]

It is a ok engine for a 200-300 hp machine but it’s far from being the best engine ever built.

The best stock engine for boost is the 1200 rotax which has proven to go 500 hp without even taking it apart or changing a single component. Just add turbo, fuel system and good fuel. The Suzuki twin cylinder tractor engine will take the highest boost pressure and stay together.

There’s nothing special about the 998 other than it can make the most power so far on pump fuel because of its reduced compression and higher RPM.


Put a motec turbo setup on a 1200, reduce its compression and it’s the king of power on pump fuel by a wide margin, and you’ll have a much lighter machine by a long shot. The 900 is a poor engine to boost no doubt.

 

[SumpBuster]

Ok I did a little research and I found the Bore and stroke measurements for the 900T motor.
74mm bore and 69.7mm stroke.

Now a question for all y’all gear heads.... how much bigger is the 900t piston than a big block Chevy intake valve?

Big block chevys at the local dirt track sound a lot better than that 900t! lol

 

[ClutchMaster]

Most definitely the V8’s have the best sound!!
Kinda like the old 2 smoke triple engines.

Yamaha basically took a viper and strapped a turbo on it, making a couple refinements along the way.

WTF was Ski-Doo thinking? They had the motor to get the job done and all they really had to Doo was hang a turbo on the existing 1200! I understand they wanted a more nimble machine, BUT they could have redesigned the intake tract and dropped it into a better chassis.....WaLaaa!
They already have a light and nimble 850, no need to compete with their own 150hp class machine.
I’m not impressed with a lot of these manufacturers and their decision making. When they tested the 900t they had to know the ITC WASNT WORKING PROPERLY but they still pushed it through to production.
Some Big Whigg at BRP must have had this stellar idea and nobody was willing to shoot it down and tell them it sucks.

 

[krm]

No 2sk sounds better than a V Max 4 With Pipes

 

[cannondale27]

Still think Phazer 2cyl with a 450based cylinders and turbo would be ultimate but need 5 valve and gear reduction that motor has. 12200 rpm!

 

[krm]

Back in 93 my buddy had a v max 4 with a turbo .It was pretty bad for the time .

 

[ROCKERDAN]

Did you get the video ?

Got it thanks.....I know the tuned 900t we rode with more power made it far too touchy for tight trails. Tuners might be able to make the iTC abit better overall, but it will never feel normal for those who are used to 2s delivery and 4s YAM throttle delivery. Sure you can get used to it, but we shouldn't have to. BRP should go back to drawing board with their 4s too long intake. BRP's problem is they have made their 4s for the touring crowd and keep their 2s sleds for perf crowd. If they designed the intake like YAM they could have a killer 4s turbo, but will never with this design.

900t guys get all bent out of shape when we call this sled out for this shortcoming, which is not just a small issue. There is only one 4s made that is purely aimed at performance feel. Back in 03 Yamaha did their homework to be sure their 4s was gonna perform.

900t is fine for touring on wide open trails, but most still dislike the 'disconnected' feeling between the thumb and engine.

 

[krm]

Got it thanks.....I know the tuned 900t we rode with more power made it far too touchy for tight trails. Tuners might be able to make the iTC abit better overall, but it will never feel normal for those who are used to 2s delivery and 4s YAM throttle delivery. Sure you can get used to it, but we shouldn't have to. BRP should go back to drawing board with their 4s too long intake. BRP's problem is they have made their 4s for the touring crowd and keep their 2s sleds for perf crowd. If they designed the intake like YAM they could have a killer 4s turbo, but will never with this design.

900t guys get all bent out of shape when we call this sled out for this shortcoming, which is not just a small issue. There is only one 4s made that is purely aimed at performance feel. Back in 03 Yamaha did their homework to be sure their 4s was gonna perform.

900t is fine for touring on wide open trails, but most still dislike the 'disconnected' feeling between the thumb and engine.

Funny you say 2003 ,That's when i started buying Doos also along with my Yamahas .

 

[SumpBuster]

Funny you say 2003 ,That's when i started buying Doos also along with my Yamahas .

That's when I quit doos and bought 2 rx1's. My 01 mach z couldn't hang with my blue rx with button track, on top end, nor could the other 3 mach z's I rode with. All stock. I put a 1.25 ripsaw 1 on the black one which cut down the top end. But what an engine...and I loved my doo triples, but these 4 strokes were way cooler! Heavier too! lol