results from "speed ring" test

DaveRX1

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I ran my sled 1/2 mile totally stock 03 rx1 ice with 1" snow. Sled has 3600 miles, .85 cat track and 120 1.25" studs down the middle.
All speeds on spedo.

Run #1 127 @10150 rpm
#2 128
#3 128

I bolted on the speed ring (fancy helix spacer for more shift)
Run #1 128 @9900 rpm
#2 128
#3 129

I removed speed ring and adjusted helix to 6+1 from 3+3
Run #1 129 @10300
#2 130 @ 10300

Clutches were luke warm to touch after all runs.


I would not waste $ on speed ring or helix machining
 
To be more accurate in your testing you needed to get the RPM's up with your speed ring testing. It's obvious that it changed the shift characteristics as it was only pulling 9900 rpm with the speed ring, but was 10,150 like the first test or to 10,300 like the last test and it would be a more accurate reading.
 
A radar would be more accurate than the speedo too..

Ive been told several times that you should not adjust secondary twist to bring RPMS up.. You should adjust weights to bring rpms up..
 
welterracer said:
A radar would be more accurate than the speedo too..

Ive been told several times that you should not adjust secondary twist to bring RPMS up.. You should adjust weights to bring rpms up..
Welt, you're correct, adjust your primary to raise rpm's, but the test should've been done with the rpm's even in all runs. The motor makes different hp level at 9,900 rpm opposed to 10,150 or 10,300 so it's unfair to compare it to the first set of runs (10,150) or the last set of runs (10,300). What it shows me is that it was just as fast with the speed ring at 9,900 rpm as it was without it at 10,150 or 10,300. Get the speed ring setup up to 10,150 or 10,300 and it might be faster than the other two. Just my .02!

Edit: It also should be noted that a setup spinning 10,150 or 10,300 rpm will be able to run a faster MPH than 9,900 rpm because engine/clutch speed affects your top speed and how far the belt travels in the primary/secondary coinciding with your gearing setup.

:rocks:
 
Whenever I used a speed ring, I geared down so I gained acceleration and the speed ring made up the difference in top speed I would have lost had I geared down without the speed ring. I was very happy with the results on my mountain sleds once I found a secondary clutch spring with enough side pressure for the speed ring.
 
Welt is also corect with the speedo thing my 03 ran 113 on radar several run's with the speedo reading frome 128 to 132 on same day with back to back run's. The dream meter seem's to fall apart even more after 100. Made some run's with the Vector yester day and it to is out in left field. That just may be all of the top end the sled is capable of pulling. If you were not shifted all the way out with out the ring, adding the ring,( more ratio) will not do anything for you, Mark the primary sheiv with a magic marker and see if it wipes it off all the way to the top, Actualy the primary will not quite go all the way in stock form but you will be able to tell if you are using what you have. As SRX said it would not be fair if your shift RPM were not in the same power for both run's. kviper
 
Srxspec said:
To be more accurate in your testing you needed to get the RPM's up with your speed ring testing. It's obvious that it changed the shift characteristics as it was only pulling 9900 rpm with the speed ring, but was 10,150 like the first test or to 10,300 like the last test and it would be a more accurate reading.

I noticed that too.
 
if you did manage to fully shift up with the speed ring, you would probably blow your belt. it will bottom in your secondary and theres not enough belt length to shift up to the top of the primary. to make it work, your center to center must be reduced 150 to 180 thou. been there done that.
 
speed ring

i found that the speed ring is just a little to thick at about 4mm it moves the shift points on the helx out to far. and if your buttons are worn even just a little the helx does not even touch them till a long way into the ramp. why is your rpm so low you can not pull any speed if you are not going to reach your peak power. when you make the clutch shift out more its just like gearing up to soon on a standard #*$&@ car it lugs the engne down. and no speed. i found that there was not mutch performce there till 10300 and it realy pulls good a 10500. at 9900 i think you should be able to get off and run beside the sled
 
Re: speed ring

i found that there was not mutch performce there till 10300 and it realy pulls good a 10500. at 9900 i think you should be able to get off and run beside the sled
[/quote]

hehehe :D that sounds like tuner talk :rocks:
 
Blackjohn,
Let's talk about changing the primary spring to the mountain spring and shimming the secondary with washers for overdrive! Give your feedback on the results! Thanks!!
 
Speed Ring.

The speed ring works!

Actually, you can just put small diameter washers on the studs before you tighten the helix down. Just make sure the washers are all the same thickness.

Try this-
1-Take the secondary off the sled.

2-Split the secondary, but before you do, take the spring out and bolt your helix and your spacer back on and tighten.

3- Close and rotate the clutches so the buttons are located in the neutral position, like they would be if the clutch had the spring in and you were just holding in your hand, looking at the buttons where they touch the helix. Notice the buttons don't touch, right?

4- Notice the 3 oval bores in the casting where the movable sheave towers come through the stationary. They are oval and they only allow the movable to rotate back just so far and the movable sheave helix towers (towers are the part where the helix bolts to) hit and stop the movable from rotating back.

5- Take a die grinder with a sand roll on it and lightly sand and shape the movable in the neutral area I describe above. Sand them equally (all 3 openings), but make sure its enough to allow the movable to rotate back and bring the buttons back onto the helix in neutral position, with the speed ring or washers installed. This lets the torque transfer through the buttons again and into the helix shift surface, like it does without the speed ring installed. If the buttons don't contact the helix, like someone above pointed out, the torque feed back to the secondary will be transfered into the belt, cause friction and heat up the belt, make it stickier and you'll loose rpms on the full shift as a result.

6- Now that you've got this far and your buttons now touch the helix with the speed ring on, YOUR GOING TO LOOSE RPMS all the way through the shift and on top. BUT DON"T LIGHTEN YOUR WEIGHTS to gain them back because you need all of the shift force you can get to close the clutches in high ratio 1:1. You need another solution.

7- Take angle off the helix in the low ratio curve. For example, if you have a 54/46, go to a 50/46 and add cam arm tip weight if the engine over-revs. You want more weight with the same RPM at full shift because you need to lock up the clutches in 1:1 in order to utilize the extra belt travel in the secondary and actually they go hand and hand. A better way to gain rpms on top is to go to a softer primary spring (softer at full shift 1:1, when the clutches are approaching lock up. Truth is, you want the softest spring, the lightest weight and straight angle helixs and the least angle you can get away with and your sled will ALWAYS be faster on top if you balance this. It takes power to compress a spring, primary or secondary. It takes power to swing heavy cam arms and it takes torque to pull angle on helixs. All of the previous, except the less helix angle minimize friction at the belt to sheve contact interface and you only want as much interfacial tension (friction) that you need to keep the belt from slipping against the gear your trying to pull and the weight your attempting to move.

8- I'm not trying to be flamin here but the conclusion above and the way the testing was performed and knowing the lack of tuning followup, after the speed ring was installed, I can't agree with this. I tested the extra travel offered by spacing the helix, followed up on the tune-up after installation, installed a slightly longer belt and I went quicker on the clocks and pulled high MPH consistently when utilizing this techniique.

I know it works.

No doubt in my mind!
 


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