Reverse issues

[BombaPolaYama]

Maybe we're sweating over this reverse issue too much - maybe it's more about things being lined up for shifting to reverse. Even on my TF with manual reverse it will not always go in and I have to move it ahead slightly to be able to get it into reverse. So it seems like this type of thing is to be expected unless you have a two-stroke with the motor reversing feature.

 

[Mooseman]

Trust me, even Doo's RER is not perfect neither and just stalls the engine unless you do it just right.

 

[campsleder]

Reverse light does not come on

I have to turn the sled off and back on again to get it to work ! any solutions ?

 

[Mooseman]

You mean you push the button and nothing happens? (no reverse light or beeper). Nope. I have the same problem occasionally. It could be something with the ECU preventing it from working due to high electrical load when the fan is running. If it is that, then that's stupid because I've seen the inside of a shift motor and the motor is small, like a toy's, so the load isn't that much and it's only for a second.

Next time it happens, I'll try and play around with stuff like the hand warmers and try to notice if the fan is running and wait until it stops.

 

[campsleder]

Yes no light ( I disconnected that Beeper !) Will check to see what is on when it happens . I don't have the new ECU.

 

[Ruggybuggy]

I've also had the issue with "push the button and nothing happens". I let it warm up and it works. I thnk that the reverse shift relays are freezing up. I never have the problem when the sled is warmed up.

 

[Mooseman]

Ha, happens to me more when it's warmed up, even after a long ride. When idling fast during warm up, it will try to shift but mostly just beeps and flashes R. I wait until it's warmed up before trying to shift it.

Reading the tech bulletin for the reverse issue/new belt and shim procedure, they give a test procedure but says to start the sled by going directly to start without pausing at the ON position to cycle the fuel pump. Maybe this is some sort of bypass mode?

I would post the bulletin itself but it's too big.

Bulletin: S2009-004
2007: PZ50GTW/FXW/MW/VTW MODELS
2008: PZ50GTX/RTX/MTX/VTX MODELS
Shifting Difficulties to and from Reverse

Symptom: On some units, shifting to and from reverse may become difficult when pressing the drive select switch button.
Cause: Different conditions may contribute to difficult shifting. The following conditions have been reported as related to the situation:
• Incorrect idle rpm
• Throttle Position Sensor (TPS)
failure
• Excessive drive belt drag
Remedy: Confirm correct idle speed, TPS function, and shift operation as instructed in this bulletin. If the unit still has a shifting problem, install an additional shim and a new-style drive belt per bulletin instructions (this new belt is standard on 2009 and later models).

Proper Function of Drive / Reverse Indicator Lights and Reverse Buzzer
Shifting to Reverse:
• When shifting to reverse, the reverse indicator light will flash and the reverse buzzer will beep in an uneven short/long pattern.
• When shifting is completed, the reverse indicator light will stay on constant (no flashing) and the reverse buzzer will beep evenly.
Shifting to Drive:
• When shifting to drive, the drive indicator light will flash and the reverse buzzer will stop beeping.
• When shifting is completed, the drive indicator light will stay on constant (no flashing).
If the engine is shut off while in reverse, the unit will automatically shift to drive when restarted.
NOTE: The gear engagement dogs inside the gearbox must align to allow shifting. It may be necessary to rock the machine side-to-side to help the gear dogs align so it will shift. This is normal.

DIAGNOSIS FOR DIFFICULT SHIFTING

1. Confirm Idle RPM
Before checking shifting, make sure the unit is
fully warm and the low coolant temperature light
1 has turned off. Set the idle speed to 1800 +/-
100 rpm.
2. Confirm Shift Operation
If the idle speed is correct, confirm the shifting
system is operating:
A. Remove the L/H side panel and drive belt
cover and remove the drive belt.
The drivebelt must be removed before continuing
with the procedure.
B. Lift the rear of the unit so the track is off the
ground.
C. Turn the key switch directly from OFF to
START and start the engine without stopping
the key at the ON position. After the engine
starts, release the key to allow it to return to
the ON position.
D. While the engine is idling (with drive belt removed), press the drive select button to shift into reverse. Rotate the secondary clutch back and forth to allow the gear engagement dogs to align, and confirm that shifting has occurred.
NOTE: If the reverse system does not shift after procedures C and D, refer to the appropriate Service Manual to troubleshoot the cause.
3. Check for faulty TPS
A faulty TPS can usually be confirmed using the self-diagnostic system. However, if the TPS has an intermittent problem, the procedures below will allow detection of the faulty TPS.
With the drive belt cover and drive belt still removed and rear of the unit still off the ground:
E. Turn the key switch from OFF to ON, wait for the fuel pump to cycle on and off (approx. 3 seconds), then turn the key to START and start the engine. After the engine starts, release the key to allow it to return to the ON position.
F. While the engine is idling (with drive belt removed), press the drive select button to shift into reverse. Rotate the secondary clutch back and forth to allow the gear engagement dogs to align, and confirm that shifting has occurred.
Repeat procedures E and F several times. If the unit consistently shifts to reverse using procedures C and D but will not shift to reverse consistently using steps E and F, it indicates a faulty TPS. Replace the TPS and repeat procedures to confirm.

If the unit does shift correctly in the tests above, the unit’s difficult shifting is likely caused by excess drive belt drag. Replace the drive belt and add an additional shim in the secondary clutch as described below.
ADDITIONAL SECONDARY SHIM AND NEW DRIVE BELT (IF NECESSARY)
If the symptom still occurs after all other checks, a new drive belt (P/N: 8GK-17641-10-00) has been developed to improve the shifting function.

NOTE: Refer to the appropriate Service Manual (available on YDS).
1. Ensure the ignition is OFF and the key has been removed. Apply the parking brake.
2. Remove the L/H side panel and drive belt guard.
3. Remove the drive belt.
4. Tag and hold the drive belt for 90 days from date of warranty request.
5. Remove and separate the secondary clutch assembly as per the Service Manual.
6. With the sheaves separated, add one secondary clutch shim (P/N: 90201-345G2-00) to the two already in place for a total of three shims.
7. Reassemble the secondary clutch assembly using a very light coat of Ultramatic Grease (P/N: ACC-ULTRA-GR-SE) on the secondary slide sheave bushing only. Confirm proper secondary spring location specification.
8. Install the secondary clutch assembly and tighten the bolt to specification.
9. Using Contact Cleaner (P/N: ACC-BRKCT-12-00), be sure the sheaves and post of the primary clutch are free of drive belt residue.
10. Install the new drive belt (P/N: 8GK-17641-10-00).
11. Install the belt guard and the L/H side panel.
12. Check shift function to and from reverse once the engine has reached normal operating temperature.
Part Number
Description
Qty.
8GK-17641-10-00
Drive Belt
1
90201-345G2-00
Washer Plate
1

 

[Mooseman]

Confirmed yesterday it's not the fan so I don't have a clue. Maybe when the season is over and I have nothing better to do, I'll pull the relays and see if it affects the the ECU not wanting to shift. Could also be the forward and reverse sensors. This system is so complicated it's difficult to diagnose it.