Secondary Clutch

[shagman]

Any word on EL CHEAPO's clutch?

Are you eating backstrap tonite?

Nope. Only saw a couple does and an owl. Working on clutch.

 

[stevewithOCD]

I haven't put my TP clutch kit on yet nor have i been up in stand. I'll be waiting for results on both. Impatiently!

 

[saskattakman]

how are you guys checking the bushing to see if it's bad?

 

[ROCKERDAN]

The interesting thing about a 3 ramp style helix, that now uses rollers....is everything has to be precisely machined and bushing riding perfectly, or else one roller wont hit. When you look at just about all other secondaries with rollers, they are 2 rollers/ramps only. 3 should be a much longer wearing, more efficient design in theory, but it does beg the question, why have all other roller designs opted for 2 and not 3.

Yam stuck to their basic same helix design, swapped pucks to rollers. The pucks would wear in instantly to get equal pressure on all 3, rollers wont do that. And could be the reason many had flat spotting.

I sure hope when I install my new helix, spring and rollers into a brand new sled, all touches equally.

There must be some tolerances that are off on the OPs secondary or bushing is whacked.

 

[shagman]

The interesting thing about a 3 ramp style helix, that now uses rollers....is everything has to be precisely machined and bushing riding perfectly, or else one roller wont hit. When you look at just about all other secondaries with rollers, they are 2 rollers/ramps only. 3 should be a much longer wearing, more efficient design in theory, but it does beg the question, why have all other roller designs opted for 2 and not 3.

Yam stuck to their basic same helix design, swapped pucks to rollers. The pucks would wear in instantly to get equal pressure on all 3, rollers wont do that. And could be the reason many had flat spotting.

I sure hope when I install my new helix, spring and rollers into a brand new sled, all touches equally.

There must be some tolerances that are off on the OPs secondary or bushing is whacked.

I agree with you on tolerances. But through the testing I've done I have'nt found any secondarys with a bad bushing or a problem with tolerances. I put different rollers in at 300 miles on my sled. (stock ones had flat spots which i believe is the result of the wrong material used to make them.) I have 1300 plus miles on the replacements with hp from 250-300hp. All are still in great shape. as far as them touching the helix ramps the pressure varies when depending when your check them but all are usually touching when riding.the only time i see them not touching is when I'm working on the secondary or have the belt off and back on, once they are run normally again all is good. So my conclusion is don't worry to much about it but keep an eye on them for problems. There are tolerances built in so that the seconday pieces will self align after being assembled and until you actually run it that alignment does'nt happen. I hope this helps you guys and I'm here to help if anyone needs help. Most problems found with these new clutches are easy to solve with patience. Yamaha could be doing a better job of removing casting slag which would help with most of the issues found.

 

[Pstn head]

I agree with you on tolerances. But through the testing I've done I have'nt found any secondarys with a bad bushing or a problem with tolerances. I put different rollers in at 300 miles on my sled. (stock ones had flat spots which i believe is the result of the wrong material used to make them.) I have 1300 plus miles on the replacements with hp from 250-300hp. All are still in great shape. as far as them touching the helix ramps the pressure varies when depending when your check them but all are usually touching when riding.the only time i see them not touching is when I'm working on the secondary or have the belt off and back on, once they are run normally again all is good. So my conclusion is don't worry to much about it but keep an eye on them for problems. There are tolerances built in so that the seconday pieces will self align after being assembled and until you actually run it that alignment does'nt happen. I hope this helps you guys and I'm here to help if anyone needs help. Most problems found with these new clutches are easy to solve with patience. Yamaha could be doing a better job of removing casting slag which would help with most of the issues found.

Amen

 

[ROCKERDAN]

Thanks Shag!

 

[RacinJason15]

I had the same thing on mine. 2 rollers not touching helix. (Brand new sled) i purchased turbo dynamics HD rollers, and there spring(dalton) when i installed the new spring i wrapped mine at 6-1 (70 degrees) and i adjusted my belt deflection with 2-3 washers and all rollers are now hitting the helix. If it was me i would call Lon at Tp and maybe have him send another helix possibly the pocket wasn’t machined properly?

 

[Conedodger]

To echo Shag, it's been a while since I held one in my hands or disassembled one, but the spring load portion of the design should by nature use all the minute tolerances in the assy and preload the unit cattywampus (Tulsa term) hiking a roller or even two off the ramp. but once under load and working, all the moving parts should all nest in for full contact on three ramps. physics/dynamics/path of least resistance. It's just math, lol.

 

[XP123]

You guys are thinking too much. Running the sled on a stand with no resistance on the drive system will show you nothing and in many cases the belt will not ride up to the top of the secondary. I ran mine on the stand the other day and only one was touching. After working the belt into the secondary by hand all three were touching. For years guys would talk about how all three Cat rollers weren't touching. This is just my opinion but having all three rollers touching all the time means nothing to me. As you ride and the secondary goes through it shifts the rollers won't all be touching at the same time. I check mine many times and most times all three are touching but in some cases only two are touching. What does all this mean? Who knows? Just ride your sleds and stop worrying about whether or not all three rollers are touching or not because I don't think it matters.

 

[cannondale27]

You guys are thinking too much. Running the sled on a stand with no resistance on the drive system will show you nothing and in many cases the belt will not ride up to the top of the secondary. I ran mine on the stand the other day and only one was touching. After working the belt into the secondary by hand all three were touching. For years guys would talk about how all three Cat rollers weren't touching. This is just my opinion but having all three rollers touching all the time means nothing to me. As you ride and the secondary goes through it shifts the rollers won't all be touching at the same time. I check mine many times and most times all three are touching but in some cases only two are touching. What does all this mean? Who knows? Just ride your sleds and stop worrying about whether or not all three rollers are touching or not because I don't think it matters.

Right on! I just spent a hour once again with someone worried that his belt wasnt completely to top on stand. Deflection. Take the belt OFF.Then set it in your secondary. Is belt even or slightly above? Are all your rollers touching now? If so Walk Away. Ride it. At that time is it squealing or creeping? Yes.Add a washer to bolt. No. Take one out. If its smooth engagement good to go.

 

[**sj**]

The interesting thing about a 3 ramp style helix, that now uses rollers....is everything has to be precisely machined and bushing riding perfectly, or else one roller wont hit. When you look at just about all other secondaries with rollers, they are 2 rollers/ramps only. 3 should be a much longer wearing, more efficient design in theory, but it does beg the question, why have all other roller designs opted for 2 and not 3.

Yam stuck to their basic same helix design, swapped pucks to rollers. The pucks would wear in instantly to get equal pressure on all 3, rollers wont do that. And could be the reason many had flat spotting.

I sure hope when I install my new helix, spring and rollers into a brand new sled, all touches equally.

There must be some tolerances that are off on the OPs secondary or bushing is whacked.

I'll take three touch points over two any day...two is the worst design...with big boost on the cats you'd get secondary "wobble"...any real performance secondary has three touch points...button or roller..the reason for 2 lately...cost..

and Id even take a roller not touching...I agree there must be a tolerance out or the bushing install slightly off...as you get miles and the bushing wears in...it might solve itself...

I wouldnt be concerned unless you have a belt issue...or preventively take to the dealer and ask for a new secondary....with what we pay for these machines ...squeak and be heard...I did and was on other beef's

 

[Soldier'spapa]

I appreciate reading through the comments on this thread! I am a “clutch novice” but want to learn.

I installed one of the dial adjusters for the secondary on my Winder. How high do I want the belt riding in the clutch? Should there be just a small amount of “creep” when on a stand or not?

 

[NYTurbo]

If all rollers are not touching in my mind there is an issue, especially if you run on stand let come to a stop.

Perhaps some miles and it will loosen up some .

 

[cannondale27]

I appreciate reading through the comments on this thread! I am a “clutch novice” but want to learn.

I installed one of the dial adjusters for the secondary on my Winder. How high do I want the belt riding in the clutch? Should there be just a small amount of “creep” when on a stand or not?

Pay particular attention to the comments about checking deflection on stand. Dont bother checking on stand its not accurate.