T T T
Extreme
Trust me I don't want to start a fight but if the Renegade is a better boondocker you don't have you Nytro set up right. A couple of suspension changes and a riser and the Nytro is like riding a jet ski in the deep. This isn't just my opinion you can go over to the snowest forum and check out the posts of the guys that ride off trail all the time. It is a fact that the Nytro set up is mor fun. I get to ride a Renegade whenever I want and it feals heavier than my XTX, it is easier to disconect the sway bar to make the Rene more playfull but then its a pig on the trails.
Another point about the 800 reliability is that it isn't just the top end problems you have to worry about, it's common knowledge that at 4000km you have to replace the cranks because of the bearings they use. For the people that don't make much for miles this might not be a big deal but for me getting a couple of years out of an engine with todays technology is just crazzy. Talk to the rental guys about the 800s, theres some good objective info there. Don't take this as a rant on the bombie I've been in a bombie biast family my whole life and now the Nytros are winning the hearts of the skeptics.
T
Another point about the 800 reliability is that it isn't just the top end problems you have to worry about, it's common knowledge that at 4000km you have to replace the cranks because of the bearings they use. For the people that don't make much for miles this might not be a big deal but for me getting a couple of years out of an engine with todays technology is just crazzy. Talk to the rental guys about the 800s, theres some good objective info there. Don't take this as a rant on the bombie I've been in a bombie biast family my whole life and now the Nytros are winning the hearts of the skeptics.
T
Goddo
Expert
Great information guys....Keep it coming. Thanks.
KINS
Pro
Tough decision buddy.
I certainly agree that your shorty is not the ideal sled for you with our conditions. I think it makes sense to stretch your skid or replace the sled. And a crossover is what you should be looking at if you choose to replace your sled.
I haven't driven a Nytro short track, so I don't know how it handles in the snow. My buddy I ride with has a 2009 Summit with the 154 inch 2.25 inch paddle on it and I would put my MTX against his any day of the week when it comes to riding in powder.
The Nytro is certainly not a perfect sled. However, for me the anticipated reliability of the four stroke alone, almost makes me rule out the purchase of another two stroke. Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of other things I like about my Nytro, but the 4 stroke engine was what made the sale for me.
In your case, your history suggests a change in sleds every two to three years. If that keeps up, I wouldn't be as concerned about buying another two stroke sled.
Good luck with your decision. I hope you end up with a ride next year that you are looking for.
I certainly agree that your shorty is not the ideal sled for you with our conditions. I think it makes sense to stretch your skid or replace the sled. And a crossover is what you should be looking at if you choose to replace your sled.
I haven't driven a Nytro short track, so I don't know how it handles in the snow. My buddy I ride with has a 2009 Summit with the 154 inch 2.25 inch paddle on it and I would put my MTX against his any day of the week when it comes to riding in powder.
The Nytro is certainly not a perfect sled. However, for me the anticipated reliability of the four stroke alone, almost makes me rule out the purchase of another two stroke. Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of other things I like about my Nytro, but the 4 stroke engine was what made the sale for me.
In your case, your history suggests a change in sleds every two to three years. If that keeps up, I wouldn't be as concerned about buying another two stroke sled.
Good luck with your decision. I hope you end up with a ride next year that you are looking for.
radianguy
TY 4 Stroke God
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Hey Goddo, have you riden an XTX? I have to tell ya I wasn't very happy with mine in the deep stuff until I changed my skis and made a few suspension adjustments.
Don't get me wrong the Renegade is an awesome sled, but can you really go back to a 2 stroke, I know I couldn't! At the end of the day you are the one riding/buying new for next season, but if it were me I'd look at changing your skid or maybe even upgrading to an XTX.
The Nytro has it's share of short comings, small gas tank, crappy skis, lack of carrying space but to me it was worth making my sled work by fixing these issues. Oh and that engine!! Puts a smile on my face every ride, I love it.
Don't get me wrong the Renegade is an awesome sled, but can you really go back to a 2 stroke, I know I couldn't! At the end of the day you are the one riding/buying new for next season, but if it were me I'd look at changing your skid or maybe even upgrading to an XTX.
The Nytro has it's share of short comings, small gas tank, crappy skis, lack of carrying space but to me it was worth making my sled work by fixing these issues. Oh and that engine!! Puts a smile on my face every ride, I love it.
Goddo
Expert
I agree Radianguy, there isn't too much out there in stock form that can produce the smile factor of that engine. I did try the larger pilot skis and they helped the machine float exceptionally. The small gas tank hasn't been an issue for me yet.
Here are my concerns with modding the skid. Rail extensions while practical don't provide me with a whole lot of comfort. As you know, some of us like to ride hard, and although I don't ride as hard as some of my hillbilly brethren, I would be constantly worried that one good hit would damage a set of rail extensions and cause carnage. Any way you slice it, upgrading the skid is going to cost a minimum of $1000 and as NLViper pointed out, there is an XTX that can be had for $10300. I'm pretty sure I could get $9000 for mine so for a few more dollars, I could be riding new again.
I haven't ridden the XTX to know what she is like in the snow or on the trails but from what I've been reading people are very happy with their XTXs.
It's safe to say that If I do keep my Nytro I will consider extending her out to 136, making some gearing or clutching changes to make her engage lower and not spin, and going to a slightly larger ski. I don't know that the 6.9 is the ski I would settle on, but maybe something in the 6.25 range like a C&A.
In regards to the BCX, there are a few things that appeal to me. The 1.75 x 136 inch track is the perfect length and lug for NL riding. The weight savings of over 50lbs is hard to overlook (Nytro's don't ride heavy, but when picking or stuck, you sure feel the weight then), and finally, the storage space. To be able to carry a gas can and strap a pack to the tunnel is something I've missed on both of my last two sleds.
Oh, this will be a tough decision
Here are my concerns with modding the skid. Rail extensions while practical don't provide me with a whole lot of comfort. As you know, some of us like to ride hard, and although I don't ride as hard as some of my hillbilly brethren, I would be constantly worried that one good hit would damage a set of rail extensions and cause carnage. Any way you slice it, upgrading the skid is going to cost a minimum of $1000 and as NLViper pointed out, there is an XTX that can be had for $10300. I'm pretty sure I could get $9000 for mine so for a few more dollars, I could be riding new again.
I haven't ridden the XTX to know what she is like in the snow or on the trails but from what I've been reading people are very happy with their XTXs.
It's safe to say that If I do keep my Nytro I will consider extending her out to 136, making some gearing or clutching changes to make her engage lower and not spin, and going to a slightly larger ski. I don't know that the 6.9 is the ski I would settle on, but maybe something in the 6.25 range like a C&A.
In regards to the BCX, there are a few things that appeal to me. The 1.75 x 136 inch track is the perfect length and lug for NL riding. The weight savings of over 50lbs is hard to overlook (Nytro's don't ride heavy, but when picking or stuck, you sure feel the weight then), and finally, the storage space. To be able to carry a gas can and strap a pack to the tunnel is something I've missed on both of my last two sleds.
Oh, this will be a tough decision
NyTrOMaNIaC
TY 4 Stroke Master
Goddo,
I think if you can get a decent trade/sale for your sled and put that towards that leftover XTX, I'd go for it. We both know a few guys with the type of sled you're pondering on, and we both know they had their fair share of hiccups. Mind you, I rode Doo for 4 years and couldn't complain about it at all, but I know more guys not so lucky. You can also relocate the taillight on the XTX to fit a gas tank/tunnel bag, seen it done on here somewhere. Add the 1.5" track, bar riser, and buy the X-click torsion spring blocks (to stiffen the rear) and you've got the best of both worlds, reliability and capability. There's easy ways to lighten this sled up too for little $$$. I dropped about 30 lbs off mine and added about 10 hp as well, and the difference is quite noticeable. A few things to consider
I think if you can get a decent trade/sale for your sled and put that towards that leftover XTX, I'd go for it. We both know a few guys with the type of sled you're pondering on, and we both know they had their fair share of hiccups. Mind you, I rode Doo for 4 years and couldn't complain about it at all, but I know more guys not so lucky. You can also relocate the taillight on the XTX to fit a gas tank/tunnel bag, seen it done on here somewhere. Add the 1.5" track, bar riser, and buy the X-click torsion spring blocks (to stiffen the rear) and you've got the best of both worlds, reliability and capability. There's easy ways to lighten this sled up too for little $$$. I dropped about 30 lbs off mine and added about 10 hp as well, and the difference is quite noticeable. A few things to consider
TurboJamie
TY 4 Stroke God
Gotta love those renegades with the 1.75" paddle!
3000 miles ported motor going strong, awesome fuel mileage!
3000 miles ported motor going strong, awesome fuel mileage!
SledFreak
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Strong Motor... Now that's funny. Yep, you are just at the right milage where it's about to go boom. Plus your ported.... A little bad fuel here and their will definetely make it even sooner. I've owned DOO's for over 25 years. The only motor that was ever good was the Rotary valve. The series 3 mill is junk... At least the 4 tec is start in the right directiion...
stewartb
Expert
It's no secret that I haven't been pleased with the two XTXs that I own. After trying to make them into what I wanted them to be, and failing, I've reached a conclusion that may be valid in this discussion.
What do you expect a crossover sled to be? I came off an '04 Pro X that was stretched to 136". That was and still is a great sled. But it's first and foremost a bump sled. That's important to me. I entered the season with the XTXs expecting something similar in performance to my Pro X skid. The XTX was a total disappointment. The XTX uses a shortened MTX skid design. It is not a bump sled. The shortcomings of the XTX are not Yamaha's fault and that's why I haven't been critical of them. I bought two sleds that weren't up to the task that I expected. I bought with blind faith. That's my fault. That I prefer the Renegades that I replaced the XTXs with may be related to the Renegade being a stretched MXZ bump sled. It makes sense. In that respect Ski Doo is the only manufacturer to approach the crossover market with a bump sled rather than from the mountain sled side.
To the original question. I believe I'd have been happier with an RTX-SE and a 136 or 144 extension. The angle of incidence isn't the end all to me. I want a bump sled with a shock package to suit and a mid-length track. A stretched SE would satisfy my requirements better than the XTX has. Whether it would suit me better than the Renegade? I payed my money and placed my bet. In other words, I don't think so.
Food for thought. Everybody's needs are different.
What do you expect a crossover sled to be? I came off an '04 Pro X that was stretched to 136". That was and still is a great sled. But it's first and foremost a bump sled. That's important to me. I entered the season with the XTXs expecting something similar in performance to my Pro X skid. The XTX was a total disappointment. The XTX uses a shortened MTX skid design. It is not a bump sled. The shortcomings of the XTX are not Yamaha's fault and that's why I haven't been critical of them. I bought two sleds that weren't up to the task that I expected. I bought with blind faith. That's my fault. That I prefer the Renegades that I replaced the XTXs with may be related to the Renegade being a stretched MXZ bump sled. It makes sense. In that respect Ski Doo is the only manufacturer to approach the crossover market with a bump sled rather than from the mountain sled side.
To the original question. I believe I'd have been happier with an RTX-SE and a 136 or 144 extension. The angle of incidence isn't the end all to me. I want a bump sled with a shock package to suit and a mid-length track. A stretched SE would satisfy my requirements better than the XTX has. Whether it would suit me better than the Renegade? I payed my money and placed my bet. In other words, I don't think so.
Food for thought. Everybody's needs are different.
TurboJamie
TY 4 Stroke God
They aren't all bad you should know as well as any what kind of fuel you get in northern ontario, its all that motor has seen all winter! I have absolute faith in the 800R now my one last season ran 6000 miles porte etc same as this baby. No more engine worries here.SledFreak said:
To each his own he can decide what he wants, I sold my nytro for a doo and had a wonderful season, purchaed a polaris assault 2 weeks ago rode it 700 miles and it sawed its self in half stock motor. That didn't keep me from ordering a Rush though.
There are several 800r's up here with 6-8000 miles with no engine troubles. It is not common knowledge to change the crank bearings at 3000km. This topic wasnt supposed to be an argument about reliability but about what would be the best sled for goddo's needs. If we can keep it at that we might actually be able to help him.
SledFreak
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justinator said:
Agreed, I will keep it civil..
Crewchief47
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Jamie, please reduce the size of your pics or use photobucket's clickable thumbnails.
RowdyRoddy
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Goddo, say the word and I'll hook up with ya out in the hills and let you take my XTX for a spin. Might help you find an answer.
RR
RR
backstop
Extreme
As stated yes there have been some 800R's with trouble as with any brand & the motor on the XTX is awsome. I was actually thinking the 1200 Renegade not the 800. I think this would be more of an apples to apples comparrison. I do not know much about the 1200 however this would be the tougher decision for me.
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