Tapp Roller Spider

[See n blue]

Just curious if anyone is using the new roller spider from Tapp? I just purchased one and find it needs a lot more weight then how Tapp sends them out.
Seems inconsistent, maybe I’m missing something. 310 Tune

 

[KnappAttack]

From what I've seen the roller isn't much different than the button spider on weight at all.

Whats you're clutching setup for 310 Tune including belt? PM me if you want and I can help you get it in the ballpark.

 

[See n blue]

2 washers per arm, blk spring, 1mm rollers, clicker 3, straight 42 helix with cat green spring 3rd hole (stm) Running an xs825 belt.
Rpm’s spike on the hit, so I’ve tried adding set screws to slow the shift but it seems slower.
Tapp said I would need less weight with the roller but am finding it needs more weight in the mid and less in the tip. I’d like to see 8800 and creep to 9000.
Ran the button spider in my previous sled and it was bang on with the same secondary set up.

 

[KnappAttack]

Sounds about right about bang on to where you should be on the primary setup with that belt. I'm not familiar with the STM secondary however and I don't run that. 42 helix I assume would be close to the old Cat reverse cam secondaries. You may need to do a 44-42 or 46-42 to get that RPM spread you're looking for. So you too are finding not much if no change at all from the button spider.... Nothing new there honestly.

Maybe if the button setup is new and fresh there is more stiction on the movable, but with any miles on the button spider, I just don't see any weight differences between the button and roller spiders needed. Do you think the inconsistencies you mentioned is in the clutching? Or could it be on intake temps or elsewhere? Who's 310 tune are you running and what's the boost levels? Are you logging to see these inconsistencies and what could be causing them? Intake & water temps will make for inconsistencies too is why I mention it.

 

[See n blue]

Honestly, I feel it’s clutch. I will play around with it, I feel that adding the weight in the mid slows the acceleration rate. But besides messing around with a bunch of different helix’s it’s the simplest fix.
I’d much rather tune the primary for rpm but with this set up, I will definitely have to try some different methods.
With the 8.4 primary, I’m wondering if I need a longer belt.

 

[KnappAttack]

Honestly, I feel it’s clutch. I will play around with it, I feel that adding the weight in the mid slows the acceleration rate. But besides messing around with a bunch of different helix’s it’s the simplest fix.
I’d much rather tune the primary for rpm but with this set up, I will definitely have to try some different methods.
With the 8.4 primary, I’m wondering if I need a longer belt.

You can find out if you need a longer belt by running it on the stand and watching how high the belt goes in the primary. Then add 3 shims behind the helix. If it goes higher on the primary the secondary is preventing full shift. At that point you can machine the helix for more travel, chances are it is hitting the hub or getting coil bind. Shoot, thats for a Yamaha secondary and I just remembered you are running a STM.

Does the STM have a ring on the bottom of the inside of it like a Cat reverse cam secondary? If so, you can mark it with a marker to see if the belt is going all the way down and running out of travel it will wear the marker off. You could also go back to the stock secondary and test that travel too like I said above. Typically if the secondary runs out of travel and the primary wants to keep going it will pull the belt right in half at top speed. I doubt you need a longer belt. Iff I'm not mistaken my TAPP is also 8.4" dia. too but I'm running the stock secondary. One more thing, keep an eye on that STM secondary, I've seen them crack in as little as 3500 miles on these 998 trail sleds.

 

[See n blue]

Albeit it’s a newer machine, Dave’s 310 tune apposed to his 300, I can’t see 10hp making a big difference.
There’s no reason for the inconsistency, it’s not like I’m doing back to back pulls so that will rule out high IAT’s.

 

[Lusemeat924]

I've logged about a few miles on a new TAPP Roller this year. Still playing with it a bit but this is what I've found so far. Black spring, high engagement around 3800, good backshift. I'm running 1.75" bolts with two of the 2.2g washers per bolt on all 4 corners. This is pretty much bang on for the TD 280hp Header tune. Running the 310hp header tune I added two of the 2.6g bolts in 2 of the arms opposing each other, RPMs are still a touch high, could use two extra 1.5g weights minimum to get closer to target RPM . I'm finding that adding 2.2-2.6g to two of the opposing arms is dropping RPM by 200 roughly. It would be nice if TAPP included thinner washers and smaller bolts in their tuning kit for more fine tuning options, maybe they do offer this as an extra but easy enough to source elsewhere which I plan to do.
I also noticed that running the blue spring with drop RPM by 100, but engagement is much smoother at around 3200. I plan to try the brown spring which TAPP offers which is right in the middle of the Blue and Black springs.

 

[See n blue]

Thanks, I’ve ordered a set of 2mm rollers. After watching the video on how the Tapp works, I figure that’s where I’ll start.

 

[KnappAttack]

I've logged about a few miles on a new TAPP Roller this year. Still playing with it a bit but this is what I've found so far. Black spring, high engagement around 3800, good backshift. I'm running 1.75" bolts with two of the 2.2g washers per bolt on all 4 corners. This is pretty much bang on for the TD 280hp Header tune. Running the 310hp header tune I added two of the 2.6g bolts in 2 of the arms opposing each other, RPMs are still a touch high, could use two extra 1.5g weights minimum to get closer to target RPM . I'm finding that adding 2.2-2.6g to two of the opposing arms is dropping RPM by 200 roughly. It would be nice if TAPP included thinner washers and smaller bolts in their tuning kit for more fine tuning options, maybe they do offer this as an extra but easy enough to source elsewhere which I plan to do.
I also noticed that running the blue spring with drop RPM by 100, but engagement is much smoother at around 3200. I plan to try the brown spring which TAPP offers which is right in the middle of the Blue and Black springs.

Not sure if your clutch came with different washers or what, but the washers should weigh 1.2G per washer, not 2.2G.

Thanks, I’ve ordered a set of 2mm rollers. After watching the video on how the Tapp works, I figure that’s where I’ll start.

Not exactly sure why you want to go to +2mm rollers or where you got the idea to do so, but you'll be adding 2.8 G per arm by doing so. The guys that all got +2's early on, ended up going to the +1's so they had some adjustability on 270-300 HP tunes.

 

[See n blue]

Going to try a few things. The rollers add weight through the shift I think it will be ideal for what I need. Maybe I’m going backwards

 

[fatchance]

I bought some titanium bolts and screws for fine tuning as well as a trip to the hardware store for some thin stainless steel 10-24 washers that weigh .5 grams each

 

[Lusemeat924]

Not sure if your clutch came with different washers or what, but the washers should weigh 1.2G per washer, not 2.2G.



Not exactly sure why you want to go to +2mm rollers or where you got the idea to do so, but you'll be adding 2.8 G per arm by doing so. The guys that all got +2's early on, ended up going to the +1's so they had some adjustability on 270-300 HP tunes.

Washers for sure weigh 2.2g, I just double checked on my scale. Confirmed weight is correct using a Dalton weight knowing its base weight. I also thought these washers were too big. Anyone else getting the same washer and tuning bolt weights in their kit?

 

[justinator]

Going to try a few things. The rollers add weight through the shift I think it will be ideal for what I need. Maybe I’m going backwards

You can also try 2 of the +2 rollers and 2 of the +1 rollers if the +2 rollers give you what you want but end up being a bit too much weight. You may end up having to add a little helix like knapp mentioned earlier to get it to your liking.

 

[justinator]

Washers for sure weigh 2.2g, I just double checked on my scale. Confirmed weight is correct using a Dalton weight knowing its base weight. I also thought these washers were too big. Anyone else getting the same washer and tuning bolt weights in their kit?

I will double check mine when I get home but pretty sure mine weigh in at 2+ grams as well.