The Apex engine is physically smaller than the Nytro engine

[Sasquatch]

I bet 2014 is the last year for the 4 cylinder.....

If so then I'm glad I bought my sled this winter. I'm betting on a 4 cylinder in 2015. After all it is the flagship motor.

 

[suburban]

I bet 2014 is the last year for the 4 cylinder.....

The wrighting is on the wall, with the new R6 and R1 both going to 3 cyl. this will be the corporate engine going forward, it is cheaper to build. 2015 is likely the last yr for 4 cyl.

personally, i prefer the 3 cyl, much easier motor to listen to than the 4 when trail riding.

 

[Irv]

What is the size of the Vector motor compared to the Nytro motor?

I was always under the understanding that the Vector motor was smaller than the Apex motor and that is why it sits lower in the chasis on the Vector compared to the Apex?

 

[MidwestMike]

My understanding is...
that the Vector and Nytro are the same size motor, just set up differently. The Nytro gains performance through the cam, fuel mapping, etc.

2009 and earlier Vectors used a carb'd 973. For 2010 they went fuel injected and upped to to 1049cc.

The Apex is 997cc. One conspiracy theory is that the 3 cylinder Vector/Nytro has a lot left in it, but Yamaha will never let it beat their flagship Apex.

 

[Sasquatch]

I bet 2014 is the last year for the 4 cylinder.....

The wrighting is on the wall, with the new R6 and R1 both going to 3 cyl. this will be the corporate engine going forward, it is cheaper to build. 2015 is likely the last yr for 4 cyl.

personally, i prefer the 3 cyl, much easier motor to listen to than the 4 when trail riding.

As we are all just speculating I have to mention that whatever Yami put in the Apex will be what they have proven for more then a year or two in the bikes.

The cross plane four have been out long enough for them to turn it into a Sled motor. The three bangers are too new for a sled motor. Whatever Yami puts in has to be created awhile ago. If its the three then I would not expect it till 2017 or later. IMHO

4 banger sounds sweet! 3 sounds ----- well like its missing something!

 

[Redbeard]

Has anyone actually confirmed the R1 superbike is going to be a 3 cyl? I googled 2014 R1, but all I came up with is speculation on the engine. Whatever replaces the 4 banger in the future will no doubt be awesome, but there's just something about the Apex engine that's addictive.

 

[Mighty]

http://www.cycleworld.com/2012/12/13/ya ... er-engine/

 

[Redbeard]

The R1 debuted in 1998. It was 5 years later before that engine showed up in a sled. I'm not saying the 4 banger in the Apex won't be replaced with a triple, I'm just betting it's 3-4 years + down the road, especially if it's an all new engine.

 

[Vmax4]

Gonna bet that Arctic Cat turbos the Nytro Motor someday........ gonna bet the new MTX will be in the SRViper Chassis..... gonna bet it comes in a turbo state and a NA state at some point.

Difference in HEAT for turbos, is in where you ride them. Try and ride them on NO SNOW or on COMPLETELY ICE PACKED GROOM TRAIL....... YUP, gonna have issues, especially if it is a 2-stroke or a front mount. Use them in the mountain segment, and all you get is FUN! Well, as long as you have a yamaha MCXpress setup!

 

[Yamahammer485]

My understanding is...
that the Vector and Nytro are the same size motor, just set up differently. The Nytro gains performance through the cam, fuel mapping, etc.

2009 and earlier Vectors used a carb'd 973. For 2010 they went fuel injected and upped to to 1049cc.

The Apex is 997cc. One conspiracy theory is that the 3 cylinder Vector/Nytro has a lot left in it, but Yamaha will never let it beat their flagship Apex.

Apex is 998cc

 

[SledFreak]

I don't see Yamaha using the bike motors. They need motors now that have a front exhaust and have more tq, then RPM. The R1 will do over 200mph. Pretty sure Yamaha is not looking to go that fast on a sled. If they plan on using the CVT, then you won't see an engine ever spin that high..

On another note... Turbos.. No need for Turbos on trail sleds. Way to much power for the trail. Turbo sleds should only be used for mountain segmet. Trail sleds are about corner to corner speed. You need tq, because of the mass that a sled produces are way more then a bike, which means you need high tq to get it move.

I doudt you will ever see Yamaha go Turbo in stock form... I want to see new engines for sled, not hand me downs from different markets segments of their product lines.

If they bumped the Nytro to a 1200CC or 1300CC NA, what do yo think it would perform like? I bet 160-175hp???

Also what about traction control? New Motors and ECU's that control the spinning or blowing the track out on hard accelerations would propel sledding into a whole new evolution.

 

[Sasquatch]

I don't see Yamaha using the bike motors. They need motors now that have a front exhaust and have more tq, then RPM. The R1 will do over 200mph. Pretty sure Yamaha is not looking to go that fast on a sled. If they plan on using the CVT, then you won't see an engine ever spin that high..

On another note... Turbos.. No need for Turbos on trail sleds. Way to much power for the trail. Turbo sleds should only be used for mountain segmet. Trail sleds are about corner to corner speed. You need tq, because of the mass that a sled produces are way more then a bike, which means you need high tq to get it move.

I doudt you will ever see Yamaha go Turbo in stock form... I want to see new engines for sled, not hand me downs from different markets segments of their product lines.

If they bumped the Nytro to a 1200CC or 1300CC NA, what do yo think it would perform like? I bet 160-175hp???

Also what about traction control? New Motors and ECU's that control the spinning or blowing the track out on hard accelerations would propel sledding into a whole new evolution.

The R1 could always go over or near 200mph ( Heck my 87hp Honda would go 130mph!) but that did not stop them from putting it in a sled in 2003! The CVT is slowed with a gear reducer now. In the 2011 and up they used a larger reducer to allow the motor to spin faster then before. You could turn the engine 13,500 rpm if you wanted with a larger reducer. As a sled takes way more power to move it I don't think we have to worry about 200mph sleds from the factory.

I agree on the turbo, I'm no longer a fan! Larger displacement would make more power but I'm not a fan of the three cylinder and don't see the point of it. Its larger and takes up more room and if you add a turbo or poke and stroke it there goes any weight savings. Larger pistons and longer stroke means more steel to increase strength.

I'm all for anti lock brakes! Traction control may be a bit of a problem because for the ECU to detect spin, it must have a referance to ground speed to compare it to the spinning track. In a bike or vehicle it compares one wheel to another as a sled only has one track the ECU has nothing to compare it to.

 

[smokingcrater]

Traction control on a sled wouldn't work... There are just as many times where you need the track speed to keep you from getting stuck compared to when excess ground speed digs you in. For trail riding, yes, you don't need to spin, but anything beyond that, its entirely condition dependent.

 

[yamadoo]

Charley you hurt my feelings not liking the three popper!! Hey I hung near ya until 75 then Good bye and you were leaving.... NOW seriously I know what you mean.....the APEX just has MORE and more is always better! (Isn't it?)

I really liked my Vector for trail riding but when I get on the APEX I feel an OH YEA...........

Yamaha will likely go 3 if the Bike motors are succussfull. It will be a few years later before in the sleds, like before. Why=> $ per sled, Cheaper us well less money RIght?

I agree not likely to benefit from traction control........where is the reference and brakes, yea maybe, but then again thats what shows an experienced driver.

My 2 cents

 

[Sasquatch]

Charley you hurt my feelings not liking the three popper!! Hey I hung near ya until 75 then Good bye and you were leaving.... NOW seriously I know what you mean.....the APEX just has MORE and more is always better! (Isn't it?)

I really liked my Vector for trail riding but when I get on the APEX I feel an OH YEA...........

Yamaha will likely go 3 if the Bike motors are succussfull. It will be a few years later before in the sleds, like before. Why=> $ per sled, Cheaper us well less money RIght?

I agree not likely to benefit from traction control........where is the reference and brakes, yea maybe, but then again thats what shows an experienced driver.

My 2 cents

Its not the power but the sound! Sure the Apex is buzzy, that is the appeal. It just sings a nice song at revs the Nytro/Vector motor does not turn. When coming out of a corner and leaning into the throttle the super bike sound just gives me a woody. The three banger just has something missing! I wonder what that could be? Worse yet is if you put aftermarket pipes on, the three just sounds like it dropped a lung. Kind of a weird wanabe tractor sound while the Apex just sounds sweet and angry at the same time. Sorry Yamadoo! Of course a 120 degree 3 banger might sound better but unless it revs 11,000 plus it just won't have that super bike scream that has relocated my blood so many times.

Its why the tripple two stroke or better yet the 4 banger two stroke just sounds so much better then the two hole. Nothing like the old V-Max 4 or the 700 SRX. I still think the Yamis had the best sounding tripple. The 98 T-Cat or ZRT (99 up they ruined the sound with a new exhaust system) sounded awesome on the trail. I loved My 98 800 tripple's burbble in the twisty tree corridors. I could ride and just get lost in the sound of it. The twos just sounded ho hum after the threes.

And to those who say the sound means nothing to how a sled runs your only half way right. Sound plays a huge part in peoples satisfaction and perception. Its why they are adding sound to some electric cars because lets face it electric cars sound way to sterile and sickly at the same time. Its why truck manufactures spend so much time tuning the exhaust sound. Sound sells!

I think that Yami will put the cross plane 4 into the Apex, anything that goes in will already be tested and proved for years. The crossplane 4 has been out since 2009 which makes it a perfect canidate for the sleds. The EXUP allows more overlap in the cams and more revs and as the current motor in the APEX does not really need it I think the EXUP was intended for the crossplane four that is coming for the Apex with a larger gear reducer and way larger overlaps on the cam.

The 3 banger crossplane concept motor may make it to the bikes (nothing but hype so far with no mention of displacements and what it will replace ) but will take many years to make it to the sleds. The 4 banger crossplane is here and has had the time to be readied for the Apex to which I think the EXUP in the sleds was made for! Can't wait for a 12,000 plus rpm screamer! IMHO

P.S. Yamadoo your vector is a nice sled and if I sold both my old Warrior and my Cat I would run out and buy a 2011 Vector I found with a 1,000 miles on it. Thinking hard on it! Price is so right! Oh by the way it would be the girls sled! Sorry again!