• We are no longer supporting TapaTalk as a mobile app for our sites. The TapaTalk App has many issues with speed on our server as well as security holes that leave us vulnerable to attacks and spammers.

Thinking about..........jumping ship

Status
Not open for further replies.
Maybe after the engine agreement expires next year, Yamaha will come out with a new chassis that addresses all of the pro cross junk parts.... Who knows.
 

rnusr01 said:
Maybe its the moon cycle or something but I am thinking about ordering a new spring order doo. The fit-finish and accessories are so much better. Plus buy it dont f*ck with everything and go. Thoughts? If there is a new chassy from Yamacat something fresh I would entertain that too.

Thanks
Click to expand...

I completely understand how you feel. This is how I felt last year when I Spring ordered my 900T.
I really liked my Winder, the power was awesome and it rode and handled as good as anything I have ever owned.
Now don't expect the 900 to perform like a Winder but like KRM posted add a tune and some clutching and a gear and it will be more sled than any STOCK Winder.
What scared me away from my Winder was the clutching, the horrible chain case design, the hoses in the tunnel and the drive shaft design along with many other Cat chassis brain farts.
The Doo engineering is so much more superior it's unreal. You don't hear the clutch at all and there is absolutely no belt dust anywhere. The chain case is so simple and probably has 75 % fewer parts in it. I can adjust the chain tension sitting on the sled and it literally takes 10 seconds to do. The tunnel and heat exchangers are one piece and seamless. No hoses or anything else under there to fail.
The Pro Cross Cat was flawed back in 2012 when it came out and not much has changed since. Yamaha needs to cut ties with Cat and build a quality chassis or just get out and supply engines. I really hope they decide to cut ties and produce a true Yamaha.

I wouldn't suggest an 850 from either Doo or Poo because they are still time bombs just waiting to explode.

The 900T so far is an awesome trail sled with great trail power awesome fuel economy and great belt life. It is truly a gas n go trail sled and perfect for a guy like me who got tired of wrenching and just wants to ride. It is not in the same league as the Winder so don't expect that.

Maybe Doo will come out with a true high HP turbo 4 stroke for next season and if they do it will be lights out for the Yamacats.
 
eightpilot said:
Maybe after the engine agreement expires next year, Yamaha will come out with a new chassis that addresses all of the pro cross junk parts.... Who knows.
Click to expand...

They better have completely different engineers than they have had in the past to work on their own chassis and suspensions...
 
this thread is leaving me feeling like I do when I read our free magazine up here in Ontario, Skidootrax. a lot of trolling has been going on here at TY. my setup is a 17 ltx se with a full qs3 upgrade with a mild revalve by a shock guy that we like in central Ontario. it has powertrail with all Dalton setup and pilot 6.9 upgrade. 10,000 kms with a broken primary spring and flat rollers being my only real issues. I would lijke to frame my winder experience based on one trip last spring. I got the chance to do the gaspe with perfect conditions. I highly recommend trail riders do it at least once, its groomed trail nirvana when you catch the weather and trails right. I went with 5 skidoo guys that are all successful A types in late 40s into our 50s, typical big new sled owners I think. on the extended truck ride out I got a fair bit of the fat girl might be fast but she will be a one trick pony, after the drag race is over the 5 doos with their superior gen4 chassis will leave big blue in the dust. while we were on our 2300 km week I rode all the skidoos for 100s of kms because after the first half mile race that they insisted on they all wanted to ride the 125 mph on snow tuned up winder. I found the 850 utterly disappointing except for the excellent rmotion skidframe. they are quick but seem to pull timing on those trails and stop pulling up top like they hit a wall. we all got the same fuel economy but at the speeds we were riding they burned 2liters of expensive oil every day (ouch$). the real reason for this post is my next point, for high speed sit down groomed trail riding the gen4 chassis has some serious idiosyncrasies. at lower speeds the steering is very direct and precise, albeit a fair bit more handle bar effort than the fat girl with 6.9 pilots, thanks a ton Dan. when the speeds go up things get weird, all the gen4s with us would get a little loose darty and then inevitably slip and violently high side. the severity of it depended on the model, xrs gade with adjustable carbides was actually hard to ride fast. i saw a lot of skidoo belly pan that week. my sled was so much easier to ride that I eventually parked myself midpack and put up with the stink because I would end up five kms ahead because my sled was so much more capable at high touring speeds. to somewhat counter some of the above comments I now know where every doo dealer in gaspe is, not just for linq tanks full of injector oil either. I did blow a belt because the doo guys liked the #*$&@ eating grin big blue put on their faces when they rode it wide open. after a long time at 125 actual mph she ate a belt. onto the present with skidoos new turbo, skidoos control of their own narrative is really shining thru. it doesn't matter how fast sleds are now, 150 hp is where its at especially since the winder came out and trounced their flagship 2stroke. krm is raving about their superiority on a Yamaha website?? two of my buddies have them this year because they thought they were getting yellow sidewinders. having to tune and clutch the crap out of them to get stock level Yamaha performance says a lot I guess. is there a handling shim to go with the performance shim you have put in the engine mount ken, even though they are lighter the steering and handling performance belies that fact they are lighter. the fact my buddies wont let me ride them says a lot I think. if one of us put my gaspe experience on dootalk they would find out where you lived, so I don't think xp123 and krms comments over here are really appropriate. I love the fact this is a help site, we don't bash guys with problems we try to help. read that other big sled site extensively and you will see the difference.

that's my long winded two cents worth.
WillowAce said:
Coming from a guy that jumped ship last year I will say that the above is very well said. Oh, and while I am here....... P.S. I know where there is a really nice, almost new, Switchback XCR 850 for sale. If you think you want to jump ship I am pretty darn sure that the owner would happily come to agreeable terms to take an equally nice, say 19' LTX-LE Winder, off your hands.
Click to expand...
 
vmxrdr said:
this thread is leaving me feeling like I do when I read our free magazine up here in Ontario, Skidootrax. a lot of trolling has been going on here at TY. my setup is a 17 ltx se with a full qs3 upgrade with a mild revalve by a shock guy that we like in central Ontario. it has powertrail with all Dalton setup and pilot 6.9 upgrade. 10,000 kms with a broken primary spring and flat rollers being my only real issues. I would lijke to frame my winder experience based on one trip last spring. I got the chance to do the gaspe with perfect conditions. I highly recommend trail riders do it at least once, its groomed trail nirvana when you catch the weather and trails right. I went with 5 skidoo guys that are all successful A types in late 40s into our 50s, typical big new sled owners I think. on the extended truck ride out I got a fair bit of the fat girl might be fast but she will be a one trick pony, after the drag race is over the 5 doos with their superior gen4 chassis will leave big blue in the dust. while we were on our 2300 km week I rode all the skidoos for 100s of kms because after the first half mile race that they insisted on they all wanted to ride the 125 mph on snow tuned up winder. I found the 850 utterly disappointing except for the excellent rmotion skidframe. they are quick but seem to pull timing on those trails and stop pulling up top like they hit a wall. we all got the same fuel economy but at the speeds we were riding they burned 2liters of expensive oil every day (ouch$). the real reason for this post is my next point, for high speed sit down groomed trail riding the gen4 chassis has some serious idiosyncrasies. at lower speeds the steering is very direct and precise, albeit a fair bit more handle bar effort than the fat girl with 6.9 pilots, thanks a ton Dan. when the speeds go up things get weird, all the gen4s with us would get a little loose darty and then inevitably slip and violently high side. the severity of it depended on the model, xrs gade with adjustable carbides was actually hard to ride fast. i saw a lot of skidoo belly pan that week. my sled was so much easier to ride that I eventually parked myself midpack and put up with the stink because I would end up five kms ahead because my sled was so much more capable at high touring speeds. to somewhat counter some of the above comments I now know where every doo dealer in gaspe is, not just for linq tanks full of injector oil either. I did blow a belt because the doo guys liked the #*$&@ eating grin big blue put on their faces when they rode it wide open. after a long time at 125 actual mph she ate a belt. onto the present with skidoos new turbo, skidoos control of their own narrative is really shining thru. it doesn't matter how fast sleds are now, 150 hp is where its at especially since the winder came out and trounced their flagship 2stroke. krm is raving about their superiority on a Yamaha website?? two of my buddies have them this year because they thought they were getting yellow sidewinders. having to tune and clutch the crap out of them to get stock level Yamaha performance says a lot I guess. is there a handling shim to go with the performance shim you have put in the engine mount ken, even though they are lighter the steering and handling performance belies that fact they are lighter. the fact my buddies wont let me ride them says a lot I think. if one of us put my gaspe experience on dootalk they would find out where you lived, so I don't think xp123 and krms comments over here are really appropriate. I love the fact this is a help site, we don't bash guys with problems we try to help. read that other big sled site extensively and you will see the difference.

that's my long winded two cents worth.
Click to expand...

Why are my comments not appropriate? I was responding to the OP's thread. Is there anything I posted that was made up or not true? I think my post was much less critical than anything Mike Knapp posted. Thanks to Mike and Rockerdan and a few others here who have made owning a Winder tolerable. They are more helpful in keeping these sleds performing out on the trails than anybody from Cat or Yamaha combined.
The fact that you have had great luck with your sled doesn't change the fact that these issues are real. My Winder was also trouble free and I only had small issues when I owned it and I also had a trouble free Gaspe trip in 2017. I also took some preventative maintenance measures with my Winder mostly due to Knapps and Dans suggestions. I'm still very interested in everything that goes on with these sleds because I ride with one and sometimes two on a regular basis.
 
vmxrdr said:
this thread is leaving me feeling like I do when I read our free magazine up here in Ontario, Skidootrax. a lot of trolling has been going on here at TY. my setup is a 17 ltx se with a full qs3 upgrade with a mild revalve by a shock guy that we like in central Ontario. it has powertrail with all Dalton setup and pilot 6.9 upgrade. 10,000 kms with a broken primary spring and flat rollers being my only real issues. I would lijke to frame my winder experience based on one trip last spring. I got the chance to do the gaspe with perfect conditions. I highly recommend trail riders do it at least once, its groomed trail nirvana when you catch the weather and trails right. I went with 5 skidoo guys that are all successful A types in late 40s into our 50s, typical big new sled owners I think. on the extended truck ride out I got a fair bit of the fat girl might be fast but she will be a one trick pony, after the drag race is over the 5 doos with their superior gen4 chassis will leave big blue in the dust. while we were on our 2300 km week I rode all the skidoos for 100s of kms because after the first half mile race that they insisted on they all wanted to ride the 125 mph on snow tuned up winder. I found the 850 utterly disappointing except for the excellent rmotion skidframe. they are quick but seem to pull timing on those trails and stop pulling up top like they hit a wall. we all got the same fuel economy but at the speeds we were riding they burned 2liters of expensive oil every day (ouch$). the real reason for this post is my next point, for high speed sit down groomed trail riding the gen4 chassis has some serious idiosyncrasies. at lower speeds the steering is very direct and precise, albeit a fair bit more handle bar effort than the fat girl with 6.9 pilots, thanks a ton Dan. when the speeds go up things get weird, all the gen4s with us would get a little loose darty and then inevitably slip and violently high side. the severity of it depended on the model, xrs gade with adjustable carbides was actually hard to ride fast. i saw a lot of skidoo belly pan that week. my sled was so much easier to ride that I eventually parked myself midpack and put up with the stink because I would end up five kms ahead because my sled was so much more capable at high touring speeds. to somewhat counter some of the above comments I now know where every doo dealer in gaspe is, not just for linq tanks full of injector oil either. I did blow a belt because the doo guys liked the #*$&@ eating grin big blue put on their faces when they rode it wide open. after a long time at 125 actual mph she ate a belt. onto the present with skidoos new turbo, skidoos control of their own narrative is really shining thru. it doesn't matter how fast sleds are now, 150 hp is where its at especially since the winder came out and trounced their flagship 2stroke. krm is raving about their superiority on a Yamaha website?? two of my buddies have them this year because they thought they were getting yellow sidewinders. having to tune and clutch the crap out of them to get stock level Yamaha performance says a lot I guess. is there a handling shim to go with the performance shim you have put in the engine mount ken, even though they are lighter the steering and handling performance belies that fact they are lighter. the fact my buddies wont let me ride them says a lot I think. if one of us put my gaspe experience on dootalk they would find out where you lived, so I don't think xp123 and krms comments over here are really appropriate. I love the fact this is a help site, we don't bash guys with problems we try to help. read that other big sled site extensively and you will see the difference.

that's my long winded two cents worth.
Click to expand...

Wow! That’s a novel!
Yea the “A” types you speak of must have been clueless about suspension setup. If all of the sleds did the same thing (high speed loose tail wagging), I would be wiling to bet the factory suspension calibration had not been touched.
Next time turn down the spring on the front track shock, it will go away.
Easy fix
Yea a Winder is second to none on those big open trails!
The trails in northern wisconsin generally have another turn every 500’
 
XP123 said:
Why are my comments not appropriate? I was responding to the OP's thread. Is there anything I posted that was made up or not true? I think my post was much less critical than anything Mike Knapp posted. Thanks to Mike and Rockerdan and a few others here who have made owning a Winder tolerable. They are more helpful in keeping these sleds performing out on the trails than anybody from Cat or Yamaha combined.
The fact that you have had great luck with your sled doesn't change the fact that these issues are real. My Winder was also trouble free and I only had small issues when I owned it and I also had a trouble free Gaspe trip in 2017. I also took some preventative maintenance measures with my Winder mostly due to Knapps and Dans suggestions. I'm still very interested in everything that goes on with these sleds because I ride with one and sometimes two on a regular basis.
Click to expand...


It's not just Dan and I Joe. There are so many here like ClutchMaster, Stain and a complete list of others that are extremely helpful, and lord knows we need all the help we can get on them. Many of these guys ran Vipers before the Winder and are already tuned into the list of problems.

I agree that there is no perfect sled, but Doo comes the closest of all of them, and I'm not speaking of the two-strokes, I'm speaking from the 1200 side of things. That sled is about as close as it comes from a reliability and fun factor making you laugh in your helmet experience as it gets. IMO they have a big loss getting rid of that engine!

I don't want a stock 150 HP or a boosted 900t at 200HP either, but if we could just get a 200HP NA Apex engine in a Doo with the Cat front end, imagine how close to perfect that would be! Sign me up!
 
I am curious about all the comments from people saying that they don't trust their Sidewinders to ride alone? Is it just the Sidewinders, or is it a general comment on the Pro Cross sleds?

I have had three Vipers, and still own two. My 2014 has 9,200 miles; my 2016 has 4,300 miles; and my 2015 that was totaled had just under 5,000 miles on it. My riding buddy had a 2016 that was a "lemon;" I towed him home 3 times in 2 years, each time with a different issue, but my Vipers have never left me stranded. I bought a used 2017 Sidewinder for my stepson, and it now has over 10,000 essentially trouble-free miles on it. (We did replace a track, but that was due to stud issues.) I just bought a 2019 Sidewinder, and so far, other than temporarily throwing a code in extreme cold conditions, it has been great.

So, are you saying that the Sidewinders are actually less reliable than the Vipers?
 
Wannaviper said:
I am curious about all the comments from people saying that they don't trust their Sidewinders to ride alone? Is it just the Sidewinders, or is it a general comment on the Pro Cross sleds?

I have had three Vipers, and still own two. My 2014 has 9,200 miles; my 2016 has 4,300 miles; and my 2015 that was totaled had just under 5,000 miles on it. My riding buddy had a 2016 that was a "lemon;" I towed him home 3 times in 2 years, each time with a different issue, but my Vipers have never left me stranded. I bought a used 2017 Sidewinder for my stepson, and it now has over 10,000 essentially trouble-free miles on it. (We did replace a track, but that was due to stud issues.) I just bought a 2019 Sidewinder, and so far, other than temporarily throwing a code in extreme cold conditions, it has been great.

So, are you saying that the Sidewinders are actually less reliable than the Vipers?
Click to expand...

Honestly, I've never had an issue with my SR Viper that I didn't cause - I never had any issues commonly found by members here. My SideWinder is already showing to be just as reliable (1,600 miles on the original belt and still going strong). I don't think it's something that you should worry about - just get out there and ride!
 
krm said:
I have a 900t boosted as i'm a TD dealer also .Just moving the 900t around the shop you notice how much better the balance is with the 900t and the 80 lb weight difference as the tires don't look like they're going to pop on the cart .No lag in the throttle ,Wheelies at will ,Gets better fuel mileage than my PT winder and my 2019 850 Doo .I also ride by myself a lot ,but i don't even think of doing that with my winder .If anyone gets a chance to try a 900t that's boosted ,clutched ,and geared correct you should try one with and open mind .I'm not loyal to any brand as i have doos,cats ,yamahas .But for now my winder will just be a dust collector unless someone wants it .
Click to expand...

Does the tune do something about the throttle by wire feel? Also are you comparing a tuned clutched geared Doo against a stock Sidewinder? Even then I dont think it will keep up. Not to mention the suspension on the Doo was stiff as hell even on full soft settings. I am 300 pounds and couldnt bottom it out on full soft. Send the shocks out and my buddies is great now. I think Monster they lower it and revalve, but now you are talking tuned clutched geared and send the shocks out on a 16K sled.
 
Its funny if you go to the Doo site you can see all of the complaints on the Doo's as well. In my group we have 1 MPI turbo Viper 1 SRX 2 137 Sidewinders 1 900T and 2 850 Doo's We all trade back and forth and race and mess around on trails and on lakes etc. They all have their better points and to be fair the 900 I didnt spend a lot of time on yet. The Viper of course added the turbo and intercooler as well as the QS3 shocks. Now for mine I blew 6 belts in 2 years 17 Winder, set backspace and removed float plus clutch kit and it is better now. I wish Yamaha had done something better to help me stock though. I added Elka stage 5 to the rear skid. Who puts non adjustable shocks on the rear of a sled. It was good but my buddies QS3's were better so I upgraded to try and make it ride better. The other Winder has same belt as new all stock. We bought them at the same dealer on the same day. SRX no belt issues yet but only 1000 miles so far all stock. 850 has serious belt issues. He has blown 3 brought it in for many things including BUYING a new vent kit the Grip and Rip engine alignment system new motor mounts etc. He has spent a lot of time chasing the issues. He also thought it rode like a buckboard so had to send his shocks out to Monster to be shortened and revalved. The 900 no issues but I am not sure he has more than 500 miles yet. He also does not like the ride of it. This is the one I dont like the throttle by wire but to be fair I only tried one setting. It felt like horrible turbo lag and then at half throttle the power came in. I dont know what mode it was in and I didnt try some other modes.
 
I definitely think the internet blows many things out of proportion and I'm sure most Winders are out there doing fine. what bothered me is last year I ran into a Winder and Tcat owner up in Quebec. They both experienced the coolant hose splitting in the tunnel ruining a saddle bag trip. They also had a friend who had the oil tank seal blow that set them back two days earlier. So the rest of the trip I was paranoid clearing all the ice in my suspension and checking my oil tank.
 
XP123 said:
I definitely think the internet blows many things out of proportion and I'm sure most Winders are out there doing fine. what bothered me is last year I ran into a Winder and Tcat owner up in Quebec. They both experienced the coolant hose splitting in the tunnel ruining a saddle bag trip. They also had a friend who had the oil tank seal blow that set them back two days earlier. So the rest of the trip I was paranoid clearing all the ice in my suspension and checking my oil tank.
Click to expand...

For most of these issues, there are some pretty inexpensive fixes too. This summer, I'm going to drop the skid and install protectors for the two coolant hoses, replace the cheap idler wheels with solid ones (mainly due to past experiences with frozen/iced wheels on Japanese-made machines), install a longer snow flap, and put in a fourth wheel kit for peace of mind. Sure I could tune the sled for more power or change out the clutching - but I'm happy with where the sled sits today as far as that goes. Nothing has broken, I'm not blowing belts left and right, and the suspension handles really well - no need for improvements anywhere else in my opinion.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.


Back
Top