brian90 said:
I've spent a lot of time on the Doo boards as I have or had intentions of buying one or two. Now that I've ridden the Yamacat that's down to one.
Doo has it's own share of issues with rattly clutches, soft and breaking clutch springs, electrical gremlins with the gauges resetting and/or fogging/frosting. The 800 etecs are reportedly very hard on oil, sticking power valves, and are on borrowed time past 3,000 miles. Stator failures and other parts issues put a guy out for weeks waiting. Hit a rail crossing wrong and risk bending the front bulkhead (nun) unless you add a brace kit.
I'm not trying to put down Doo. They all have their issues, it just seems to me that the Yamacat issues are quite simple fixes where many of the others require parts.
The Doo that I intend to buy would be looking at changing the entire primary clutch right away as part of a kit.
The YamaCat would get a clutch kit and some skid wheels.
farmerschiferl
Lifetime Member
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2010
- Messages
- 385
- Reaction score
- 220
- Points
- 1,048
- Location
- Hewitt,WI 54441
- Country
- USA
- Snowmobile
- 2017 Yamaha Sidewinder BTX-LE
- LOCATION
- Hewitt, WI
Only issue with my xtx-se with a thousand miles before I rolled it was chaincase issues and the stock belt and I love the Viper and it's worth it All the way
sfraser
Extreme
Well after trying several sleds this year i have narrowed my spring order down to 2 sleds. Either a Viper LTX-DX or a Skidoo Renegade X 600 ETEC. I think I would be happy with either sled , they are both seem great. It may just come down to price ...who knows. My wife and I tried a 2011 GSX a few weeks back and she loved it, so much so she asked me to get her a quote on a Renegade sport, Yamaha has nothing to compare with the price and ride of the Sport.
A few things i noticed while comparing. While they have certainly have been a few 600ETEC engine failures in the past , I will temper that with the fact that there is a #*$&@ load of them out there, so of course there is gong to be more failures. I love 2 strokes, but after riding an Apex for the past 7 yr's I am little concerned i will miss the freight train torque of the yamaha 4 strokes, this concerns me more than reliability issues. However Yamaha has also had there fair share of both cold and warm start issues with the Viper, and i have not yet seen a fix. Over all the Viper win's in the engine dept.
From a handling perspective, I think the ski-doo is better. I say that because I experienced what it can do. When I rode the GSX it absolutely railed through the corners, much of this had to do with the riding position. I "think" the Viper could be set up to be close if not as good, but have not witnessed it personally.
For Ride and comfort, I will give them a tie, mostly because i am going on hear-say, I have not rode a LTX-DX only the RTX and the LTX-SE, both which are sprung quite different than the LTX-DX. From all accounts the LTX-DX is a extremely nice riding trail sled. Same goes for the R-motion on the doo, I have not yet tried it . (the 11 GSX had a another ski-doo suspension). From all accounts the R-Motion is the current bench mark for trail comfort.
Riding position is likely the area i am keying on the most. i don't have the best back and hips, and the Apex riding position has been just killing me this year . It is rider forward for me, how much rider forward is TBD. There is a Sled show in town next week, so i hope to get some serious butt time on both models to determine which suits me better.
I know some people will bring up over all reliability, well i have ONLY owned Yami sleds, and currently own a 02 Viper and a 06 Apex, so I know a little bit about that. I can say my experience with the Apex has not been overly positive. In fact after calculating the money spent on keeping the Apex on trail with donuts, belts, flex pipes, jack shaft bearings, idler wheels , idlers wheel bearings, steering shims and MORE idler wheels, mono shock welding; starter solinoids, snapped front shocks etc. I can honestly say over 13k the Apex has cost me over double in repairs than the 02 Viper which has 16k on it . Yea the 4 stroke run's fine (as long as it is above -25 , cause then it won't start). I am actually quite fed up with fixing the Apex, so what ever my next sled is, it will be flipped after the 3 yr warranty period.
I have a few questions for Yamaha next week at the sled show in regards to the 2015 Viper. I would appreciate any comments on things I missed.
1. warm starting issues , is there a fix on the 15's , or still lip service
2. Cold start issues, both ECU voltage sensitivity, and Fuel mapping, is there a fix on the 15's or more lip service
3. Snow ingestion while in powder causing stalls/bogging fix/lip service?
4. Drive chain explosions.
5. Clutch issues
6. have they changed the suspension calibration for next yr on the LTX-SE/DX
thanks guys.
A few things i noticed while comparing. While they have certainly have been a few 600ETEC engine failures in the past , I will temper that with the fact that there is a #*$&@ load of them out there, so of course there is gong to be more failures. I love 2 strokes, but after riding an Apex for the past 7 yr's I am little concerned i will miss the freight train torque of the yamaha 4 strokes, this concerns me more than reliability issues. However Yamaha has also had there fair share of both cold and warm start issues with the Viper, and i have not yet seen a fix. Over all the Viper win's in the engine dept.
From a handling perspective, I think the ski-doo is better. I say that because I experienced what it can do. When I rode the GSX it absolutely railed through the corners, much of this had to do with the riding position. I "think" the Viper could be set up to be close if not as good, but have not witnessed it personally.
For Ride and comfort, I will give them a tie, mostly because i am going on hear-say, I have not rode a LTX-DX only the RTX and the LTX-SE, both which are sprung quite different than the LTX-DX. From all accounts the LTX-DX is a extremely nice riding trail sled. Same goes for the R-motion on the doo, I have not yet tried it . (the 11 GSX had a another ski-doo suspension). From all accounts the R-Motion is the current bench mark for trail comfort.
Riding position is likely the area i am keying on the most. i don't have the best back and hips, and the Apex riding position has been just killing me this year . It is rider forward for me, how much rider forward is TBD. There is a Sled show in town next week, so i hope to get some serious butt time on both models to determine which suits me better.
I know some people will bring up over all reliability, well i have ONLY owned Yami sleds, and currently own a 02 Viper and a 06 Apex, so I know a little bit about that. I can say my experience with the Apex has not been overly positive. In fact after calculating the money spent on keeping the Apex on trail with donuts, belts, flex pipes, jack shaft bearings, idler wheels , idlers wheel bearings, steering shims and MORE idler wheels, mono shock welding; starter solinoids, snapped front shocks etc. I can honestly say over 13k the Apex has cost me over double in repairs than the 02 Viper which has 16k on it . Yea the 4 stroke run's fine (as long as it is above -25 , cause then it won't start). I am actually quite fed up with fixing the Apex, so what ever my next sled is, it will be flipped after the 3 yr warranty period.
I have a few questions for Yamaha next week at the sled show in regards to the 2015 Viper. I would appreciate any comments on things I missed.
1. warm starting issues , is there a fix on the 15's , or still lip service
2. Cold start issues, both ECU voltage sensitivity, and Fuel mapping, is there a fix on the 15's or more lip service
3. Snow ingestion while in powder causing stalls/bogging fix/lip service?
4. Drive chain explosions.
5. Clutch issues
6. have they changed the suspension calibration for next yr on the LTX-SE/DX
thanks guys.
number1kyster
TY 4 Stroke God
- Joined
- Dec 10, 2004
- Messages
- 2,196
- Reaction score
- 898
- Points
- 1,483
- Location
- Vermont
- Country
- USA
- Snowmobile
- 2018 SW RTX SE
SFraser,
I would not hesitate to buy a 600 Etec. My friend bought one the first year they came out and his blew up the first season with 2,000 on the clock. It was a manufacturing issues and the dealer had him back on the trail in 3 days.
Since then he has 4,500 trouble free miles all while getting fuel mileage that exceeds 20 MPG when riding easy. Oil consumption is really good too. His is a renegade X and it handles and rides better than any Yamaha I've ever ridden.
I too had a 2007 Apex RTX. I replaced much more parts in 13,000 miles that it seems other brands need. IMO the absolute best part of the Viper is that they got rid of the rear exit exhaust. It looked cool but did not function well.
Long story short, you can't go wrong with either sled. The viper will have a lot more snot, top end will be close. I'd ride them both and pick the one that fits you best.
I would not hesitate to buy a 600 Etec. My friend bought one the first year they came out and his blew up the first season with 2,000 on the clock. It was a manufacturing issues and the dealer had him back on the trail in 3 days.
Since then he has 4,500 trouble free miles all while getting fuel mileage that exceeds 20 MPG when riding easy. Oil consumption is really good too. His is a renegade X and it handles and rides better than any Yamaha I've ever ridden.
I too had a 2007 Apex RTX. I replaced much more parts in 13,000 miles that it seems other brands need. IMO the absolute best part of the Viper is that they got rid of the rear exit exhaust. It looked cool but did not function well.
Long story short, you can't go wrong with either sled. The viper will have a lot more snot, top end will be close. I'd ride them both and pick the one that fits you best.
why do guys refer these as 600 class sleds. when it was in the nytro, they 700,or 800 class sleds. are they really that much slower in the viper.
sfraser,
I would suggest taking a look at the Doo 900 ACE as well. I'm hoping to ride the 900 ACE and a Viper on a demo same day.
I would suggest taking a look at the Doo 900 ACE as well. I'm hoping to ride the 900 ACE and a Viper on a demo same day.
dudester4 said:
The 3 cylinder in both the Viper and Nytro is 135 ish hp which is 600 class hp especially when you calculate the extra weight into it. They run in 600 class when being drag raced or snow crossed. They have never been in the 700 class which does not exist in new sleds anymore. 800's are now turning 160 hp and are lighter which would make them a Joke.
Bosst one 9#'s or more and everything else is a JOKE
