What happened to the DDM Tuning HID thread?

[kinger]

Many of the vendors here on TY offer great products at reasonable prices but when I see an equivalent product at a much lower price it makes me wonder what the TY advertiser's profit margin is. HID lighting has been around for awhile so they didn't invent something new they just marketed it as a plug and play unit for Yamaha sleds. Seeing how most Automotive kits are completely compatible with snowmobiles and are also plug and play units I wouldn't be afraid to go with the cheaper kits.

Cheaper is not always better.... LOL, I would do my home work before I buy but to be aware is fine just be careful on how hard you push on this site. Its good to keep guys honest but to far could be detrimental.

here is the post:
http://www.ty4stroke.com/viewtopic.php?p=804739#804739

Nice I knew it wasn't deleted just moved to the right forum.

 

[sobfrogg]

I can say I have tried cheeper HID's. Not in my sled but in my truck. I melted one headlight housing and the other kit ate 2 bulbs and one transformer.
I have Kurt's kit in my Attak now. Thinking about trying it in my truck knowing that Kurt has his kit in his van and has been trouble free.

Gotta say cheep is cheep.

 

[kinger]

The DDM's are not cheap components the ones that come in 40 languages on the side and english isn't one of them are the ones to watch out for.

I have DDM's in my truck and they rule. I used the 55W 8k unit and they are a little too blue for my liking but light up the road like CRAZY. I had to use the aux wiring harness to power them as well as they would flicker from my stock wiring.

Been over 2 years now and they are on all the time with the truck (DRL) and have been great.

 

[Phazernut]

The DDM's are not cheap components the ones that come in 40 languages on the side and english isn't one of them are the ones to watch out for.

I have DDM's in my truck and they rule. I used the 55W 8k unit and they are a little too blue for my liking but light up the road like CRAZY. I had to use the aux wiring harness to power them as well as they would flicker from my stock wiring.

Been over 2 years now and they are on all the time with the truck (DRL) and have been great.

I have the 6000k 55 watt in my truck and bike and they are almost completly white with just a very slight blue tint. Visability is fantastic. I think they would be too white for sled use.

 

[kinger]

Yeah that is what I wanted for my truck but with the 55w kit they said the power almost reduces the amount of blue so a 8K is similar to a 6k 35 watt so I bit on it, and wish i did what you did. Oh well they dont look blue when driving I just got a call from some farmers that I passed and said they were bright blue and too damn bright LOL

 

[Phazernut]

I think you can get replacement bulbs for like 20.00 or less for a complete set....no such thing as too bright

 

[SLEDSTART]

Did I step on someones toes by making others aware of an equivalent product that an advertiser on this site sells at a ridicules price? I thought this site was developed to bring the Yamaha community together to share information that promotes our sport not for vendors to profit. I'm here to share my years of experience and knowledge with others without profiting and I have no ties to any of the powersports vendors so I'm a little confused why the HID post was pulled. An explanation would have been nice.

If a moderator who is also an advertised vendor removed it because it cuts into their profits that's disappointing.

Many of the vendors here on TY offer great products at reasonable prices but when I see an equivalent product at a much lower price it makes me wonder what the TY advertiser's profit margin is. HID lighting has been around for a while so they didn't invent something new they just marketed it as a plug and play unit for Yamaha sleds. Seeing how most Automotive kits are completely compatible with snowmobiles and are also plug and play units I wouldn't be afraid to go with the cheaper kits.

I'm going to start off by saying I was not even aware of the original thread and was informed of it on the phone by another TY member about 5 minutes ago. So to answer any speculation, no I had absolutely nothing to do with anything getting removed nor did I go crying to Mr. Sled about you or anyone else wanting to put a lower priced HID kit in their sled. nor am I a moderator that is yanking threads that relate to my products OR my profit margins. In fact I'm not even a moderator at all!

I do appreciate how Mr. Sled runs the site and as an advertiser I understand and respect why he runs the site they way he does. I would assume it is one of the reasons why advertisers choose to run ads here. I know that is true for us anyhow. To be honest I could care one way or another if that thread is here, there or anywhere. People will make their own decisions based on what they want to learn, listen to or believe. This is America. That's the beauty. It's free will.

As far as the pricing and quality difference of the kit's, This could open a huge can of worms especially when we are not even talking apples to apples here and to be honest I really don't even want to get into this conversation. But I will say this. We did not solely set the current pricing. And when Yamaha comes to you and wants to carry your product and your a small outfit wanting to make it, your going to at least listen to them and give it a shot if you can. So if you had the facts on the kind of time and money spent to get the product into the hands of a company like Yamaha then maybe it would help you to have a better understanding on how the products pricing is derived. I know I sure understand it, and if I didn't the product would not even exist. We had to design and build 3 different harnesses for different applications and then stock and assign part numbers to every individual part in the kit so if you chafe a wire on a harness or you have a part go south down the road you can order just that part to repair the kit. Could I have offered the absolute cheapest kit I could find to my customers, mark it up 5 bucks, sell a boatload on ebay or wherever, offer a lifetime warranty because I'm selling so many like this I can just keep sending out more cheap parts to replace cheap failed parts? Sure, but it was not how I felt I wanted to do things. Especially after talking to guys like Kyle (stopdropandroll) and others who have been dealing with these kits over the past years.

Grizz, I hope that kit lasts a lifetime without one single failure and you are completely satisfied. I really do. There are some great kits out there and there is also a lot of junk out there. Maybe this is just a great kit for a great price, but I am not going to pass judgment on it without facts. I do know that usually when something is such a great deal it's hard to believe. then in most cases the outcome does not meet then expectations. Maybe your kit will show that, maybe not. I really don't know. Is our kit more? Yes it is. Is it the same thing? Based on what I know about the wholesale costs variances and seeing, testing and handling these kits I would highly doubt it, but as I tell my wife all the time...I could be wrong. I have been before...but only once...lol

I'm going to be straight up here. I was a little miffed when I saw this comment.

"Many of the vendors here on TY offer great products at reasonable prices but when I see an equivalent product at a much lower price it makes me wonder what the TY advertiser's profit margin is"

Well what it makes me wonder is if you could stand in my my shoes and see the numbers and the time that went into this project. what your reply might be to your very own comments?

This kit is not an off the shelf low priced automotive kit and for you say it is equivalent I just don't know how you could know that? From the get go it is not equivalent at least in a sense that it comes with instructions. Yes ones that are sled specific that we are constantly updating. tech/installation support for the guy who may have never installed a kit (especially on a sled). It may be no big deal to you that your kit came with no instructions but to many that is a big deal. I even personally had a guy bring a sled to my house last Sunday (yes during football) because he needed someone to install the HID's and a belly pan protector and this was the only day we could make work. He had some some bad experiences with dealers and I can sure understand that. Now as far at the kit, the harness has been completely modified with much shorter lengths, duel shielding and watertight connections throughout INCLUDING the fuse holder. I have yet to see a kit with watertight fuse holders. Most will have the waterpack plugs for the ballasts since in most cases the ballasts will be exposed to some sort of weather, but I wanted a harness that fit the sleds better. Not to mention a kit that was the correct watt kit with the correct bulb. I still get in discussions with guys wanting to run 55-watt kits 6k or 8k bulbs etc. They think "more is better" All these guys are going to do is endanger oncoming sleds AND get horrid reflection off the snow. It is simply too much light. So I don't see these as "equivalent" as I believe what we offer is a bit more than just a difference in price.

The kit we developed was to be a turnkey kit that was modified for sleds for riders that did not want to spend hours and money buying the wrong kit. If you feel the price is outrageous then I would ask you at least think about the real differences between the kits, what went into those differences, and who is involved here. We as the manufacturer have to uphold their pricing on the kits to protect Yamaha's dealers. We offered these kits for almost a full year to TY members on this site at a much cheaper price. Now that Yamaha and their dealers are offering this kit, they of course need to make a dollar. I do not set Yamaha's margins, nor do I know what it cost to print all their catalogs, distribute the product to their dealers, advertise, market and warehouse the product.

Like anything else, the dealers can sell the product for what they want, but as a manufacture it would be stupid of us to be out here undercutting the dealer network when each and every one of them are my sales force.

I thought this site was developed to bring the Yamaha community together to share information that promotes our sport not for vendors to profit.

I agree. it is designed to bring us together and I gave met some fantastic people from this site. But can I ask you something? if "us vendors" don't make a profit how do you think this site would even function? Banner ads are not free. Banner Ad's pay for you to sit there and read this.

I don't want this to get into a debate please and I'm all for you guys wanting to save a buck. I'm the same way without a doubt. But please before you make the comments you have made about ridiculous prices, equivalent products and our margins, please understand all the facts first. I just felt I need to at least defend A) myself because I log in and read this and it's like I'm made to be some bad guy who is yanking threads so I can make more money. That I did not appreciate at all. And B) to explain our product based on real world testing in the environment it will be used in, who has done that testing, and where and how it is being offered and supported.

Kurt

 

[grizztracks]

Sorry if I offended you Kurt, it was not my intention. I'm sure you put a lot of time an effort into your products and I've heard nothing but good about your customer service. Looking back, I agree that my original post indirectly promoted an unauthorized vendor and I understand the decision to pull it.

Enough said......time to move on.

 

[Riceburner]

Kurt appears to be a CLASS ACT !!!!

Great post.

Getting ready to install my Sledstart and HID kit from Kurt on the 2011 SE.

[Also glad the other one did not get deleted even though I have no interest]

 

[SLEDSTART]

Sorry if I offended you Kurt, it was not my intention. I'm sure you put a lot of time an effort into your products and I've heard nothing but good about your customer service. Looking back, I agree that my original post indirectly promoted an unauthorized vendor and I understand the decision to pull it.

Enough said......time to move on.

Thank you Grizz. Like I said, I have no issues with posting projects like yours and even where you got it. That's what a lot of what this site is about. As far as the site rules I respect and understand why they are in place. But like I said, it's America and it's a great place to live where we can actually do things like Snowmobiling. I'm just a little guy in a big sea, so no harm no foul my friend. I just felt like I may have been getting a bad wrap when I did not even know these threads existed. To be honest I don't have the time to come on here and enjoy this site as much as I used to and I miss it. At the end of the day I just want happy and educated customers!

And FYI just in case anyone is thinking of going the SledStart HID route please go through your Yamaha dealer if at all possible. They have stock or can order stock and get them in a day or two. As of today I'm sold out. Kits are in production but the harnesses are truly custom so they take a little time.

If your dealer does not know a thing here are the Yamaha part numbers:

Sleds with removable panels = SMA-HIDLT-00
Sleds with a hinged hood (RX chassis etc) = SMA-H4HDX-RX

Kurt

 

[SSX600]

Kurt your a class act and I know from my emails and questions I had before I bought my HID kit this last spring if I have any questions about installing it in the next couple of weeks you are only an email or phone call away. I also got the Sled Start when I purchased the sled that the guy never installed and I will be putting them on soon. Keep up the good work.

Eric