Yamaha 4-strokes vs Doo DI E-techs

[Kråkan]

Not really on topic but the talk about the weak skids I find interesting. Have had a -06 Nytro and now the FX Nytro RTX. The valving is as said crap but the old Nytro had one problem in the rear and that was those crappy inner wheels. The FX skid looks to be rock solid. No problems this far and Johan Eriksson (the snowX racer) stated that the skid is infact very durable. No problems over the whole season... His is reinforsed like the -09 SE will be. After a revalve mine can take ALL i trow at it. It isnt smooth on the trails but that really wasnt the intention...

 

[SledFreak]

PLus, the low end torque it produces at such a low RPM. It's un-matched.

 

[Greasemonkey]

Just my 2 cents, and I really don't like saying this, but a good buddy of mine had the chance to ride a new Etec around Gaspe' this winter. He has been a staunch Yamaha rider since the RX-1 was introduced in '03. He has owned 7 Yamaha 4 strokes between him and his wife since. Now about his demo ride. He put 825 miles on it. He told me that the fuel mileage was incredible, way better than his wife's Apex. The sled accelerated past 105 mph with way more throttle to squeeze. He used approximately 2 pints of oil on this trip. He said the handling was like he never experienced. He got back and ordered 2 for next year. Now, he does admit that he is taking a chance buying a new model, but, he was that impressed! He also talked another Yami rider into ordering one, also. I went from a group of 6 Yami riders down to 3. This is really disturbing to me because I always buy his wife's sled after she uses it for 2 years, that's how I upgrade. Now I'm porked because she's on a Doo next year. I have owned 5 Doo's in my time and I never had a complaint, except the earlier suspensions. I DON'T see myself going back, I love my Apex GT. I guess I'll have to hold on to it longer than I'm use to.

 

[justinator]

Just my 2 cents, and I really don't like saying this, but a good buddy of mine had the chance to ride a new Etec around Gaspe' this winter. He has been a staunch Yamaha rider since the RX-1 was introduced in '03. He has owned 7 Yamaha 4 strokes between him and his wife since. Now about his demo ride. He put 825 miles on it. He told me that the fuel mileage was incredible, way better than his wife's Apex. The sled accelerated past 105 mph with way more throttle to squeeze. He used approximately 2 pints of oil on this trip. He said the handling was like he never experienced. He got back and ordered 2 for next year. Now, he does admit that he is taking a chance buying a new model, but, he was that impressed! He also talked another Yami rider into ordering one, also. I went from a group of 6 Yami riders down to 3. This is really disturbing to me because I always buy his wife's sled after she uses it for 2 years, that's how I upgrade. Now I'm porked because she's on a Doo next year. I have owned 5 Doo's in my time and I never had a complaint, except the earlier suspensions. I DON'T see myself going back, I love my Apex GT. I guess I'll have to hold on to it longer than I'm use to.

Sorry but there isnt a 600 around that accelerates to 105 with throttle to squeeze, keep in mind the xp speedos read 110 at 98-100gps. The 600sdi is faster than the new e-tec and that is a fact now that there are some floating around out there. Im sure the handling and fuel consumption was impressive but on average trail conditions on snow you will only see in the 90mph range on gps, maybe squeak past 100 on plowed road or ice but doubtful, hell the 800xps in stock form are only running 110-112 on SPEEDO...........2 pints of oil is impossible, thats 1 qt for 825 miles, bombardier claims 4 qts for 1100 miles at 25mpg, obviously oil consumption increases with increased fuel consumption so bombardiers claim of 1100 miles is very conservative and thats straight from the dealers mouth. I think your friend over exaggerated big time!

 

[ReX]

While those numbers do sound too good to be true, it is still an impressive 600 2-stroke and it is treading on 4-stroke territory.

Although I didn't try too hard, I didn't get the one I rode over 90 mph and that was with the throttle wide open on a long enough stretch to give me a decent idea of the power. It might have hit 100 mph on the speedometer eventually but I doubt it would have done much more. The trail was freshly groomed within the past 12 hours (but set up), smooth, and the temperature was slightly below freezing. It did pull well up to almost 90 mph, but it seemed to run out of steam at that point.

When I got back on my 07 Apex RTX, I rode over the same stretch to get a comparison. It hit 100 mph (on the speedo) on the same stretch without any trouble at all and I didn't use the full distance either.

The throttle response difference was very significant too. The E-Tec felt very sluggish and getting back on my Apex, the Apex felt like it had absolutely incredible throttle response.

Fuel wise, the E-Tec is very impressive. The guy who rode it most of the time claimed he had seen 35 mpg (Cdn gallon) a few times. Again, he was stretching the truth I'm sure, but he did burn a lot less than my Apex. Skidoo rates the fuel economy at 11.3 liters per 100 km or 25 mpg and based on what I saw, I believe it. It also has a nice big fuel tank (especially compared to the ridiculous one on the FX Nytro) so it will definitely be the fuel range king of snowmobiles next season.

Oil wise, the E-Tec is supposed to burn 0.2 liters per 100 km (62 miles). Over an 825 mile trip this works out to only 2.65 liters. Considering the oil tank holds 3.8 liters, your buddy may have only added 2 oz, but I'm sure it wasn't all the oil he burnt. One of my complaints with my old 2-strokes was needing to add oil every couple of fuel fill ups. With almost 4 liters of oil capacity and using much less (than my previous 2-strokes), the E-Tec should go close to 1000 miles (1600 km) before needing oil. Of course it will burn more in the real world when it is driven hard, but even if it could "only" do 500 miles (800 km) before needing an oil topup, this is still impressive.

Burning oil at a rate of 0.2 liters per 100 km and burning 11.3 liters of gas per 100 km, this works out to a reasonable (but not incredible) 56:1 fuel to oil consumption ratio.

Considering the crank doesn't get any fuel in it (except for any blowby) and oil is fed directly to the crank, I'm surprised Skidoo couldn't get something like 100:1 or even 150:1 (I assume it probably needs the oil for piston/ring lubrication). One thing for sure, the 600 E-Tec I rode didn't smell like a 2-stroke, smoke like a 2-stroke, nor even sound like a typical 2-stroke.

The suspension on the MXZ (E-Tec) worked very well. I found a couple of slightly off-trail bumps to try and the skid soaked up the bumps without bottoming at all. The ride was extremely comfortable too (very comparable to a stock monoshock) and far less harsh than my RTX. Taking my RTX over the same off-trail bumps it didn't bottom out either, but it feel like it used close to the same amount of suspension travel.

Quite honestly Skidoo's MXZ skid blows the doors off all of the stock Apex suspensions I've ridden. The monoshock might provide just as nice a ride on smooth trails, but the MXZ not only rides extremely well but it also can handle very big bumps without bottoming out.

Putting it all together, really the only negative I saw was dropping down to 600 cc class engine performance. If Skidoo had a peppy 800 cc E-TEC it would really compete with the Apex (and overall it would probably be a better sled for most buyers due to the better suspension performance).

 

[rxrider]

Ehhhh I might as well buy a MXZ suspension to put in my '08 Apex RTX

2 vs 4 - nothing much to add so I won't LOL but then there is the option of adding a turbo or SC, then the smokers don't cut it IMO.

OK - I have to admit I bleed blue and I'm allergic to yellow... no matter what Doo puts out I won't buy it, but that's just me.

 

[Greasemonkey]

Sorry if it sounded impossible, guys, I thought so too. I just know that it did impress him enough that he ordered 2 of them. That's why I had to wonder if he was or wasn't exaggerating. I wasn't on the trip, so I had to go by what he said. This did come from a dealer that is known for tweaking. Could they have messed with this one to get it to run better than stock without anyone being able to tell? Maybe his Attack GT doesn't quite run as good as it should and that's why he thought the Etec ran better. I never raced him so I never compared, I was always way out in front of the rest of the gang to begin with.

 

[420ATTAK]

all through history yamaha has always had a suspension that has been "second rate" and they are not usually "the fastest" sleds out there but man they make one heck of a great all around all of this is my oppinion but I have not rode a better sled than my ATTAK and would not go back to another brand again it dont bother me i am a bit heavier, or a little worse ride, or not the fastest all that matters to me is i rede a YAMAHA and if you ask me that is just another way to spell QUALITY, oh ya i dont beleve ive found a more dependable sled either my .02

 

[**sj**]

have not logged a mile on a doo ever..but man the xp 800 is under my skin...and a buisness associate is looking to blow his out dirt cheap....funny thing..over the years...every conversation with a doo rider ...claims of not having problems....then the "except" creaps into the conversation when I hold their feet to the fire...usually 800 motors and brain failures..

speaking of fire...did I mention I'm getting pulled into the xp like a moth to flame..

I know Id miss the smoothness of the yam motor....but light and nimble with good power and a terrific suspension sound like a winnner..

I sure could some help talking me out of it...cuz alot of doo'ers are talking me into it..

 

[hondo]

SJ,

Let's see here...honest discussion...Is the glass half full, or half empty???

First off, I would suggest to log a few miles on the sled your "business associate is looking to blow out dirt cheap". "Dirt cheap" would be my first clue.

The snow is always more yellow on the other side...and have seen many of those "exceptions" on the trail.

It took two motors last year (2007 season) by a gentleman from Quebec, to set the Guinness World 60 Day Snowmobile Record, bumping the record from 11,604.6 kilometers 7,211 miles to 11,605 kilometers or 7,211.25 miles.

Ref: SnoTech Magazine Oct/Nov 2007 Issue.

I started my record attempt this year with an original factory engine that already had 22,605 miles on it.

The record is now 19,574.45 kilometers or 12,163 miles.

Bottom line: Why would you choose to be miserable, or not???

Hope this helps!

 

[Superman]

have not logged a mile on a doo ever..but man the xp 800 is under my skin...and a buisness associate is looking to blow his out dirt cheap....funny thing..over the years...every conversation with a doo rider ...claims of not having problems....then the "except" creaps into the conversation when I hold their feet to the fire...usually 800 motors and brain failures..

speaking of fire...did I mention I'm getting pulled into the xp like a moth to flame..

I know Id miss the smoothness of the yam motor....but light and nimble with good power and a terrific suspension sound like a winnner..

I sure could some help talking me out of it...cuz alot of doo'ers are talking me into it..

"You can think about it, but doooon't do it."

 

[Sasquatch]

SJ,



It took two motors last year (2007 season) by a gentleman from Quebec, to set the Guinness World 60 Day Snowmobile Record, bumping the record from 11,604.6 kilometers 7,211 miles to 11,605 kilometers or 7,211.25 miles.

Ref: SnoTech Magazine Oct/Nov 2007 Issue.

If you read his journal you will find that it did not take two motors to set the 60 day record of 11,605kms. This happened a few weeks later at 16,980 km. Lost a piston and scored the jug. New piston and jug does not equate a new motor. This is how rumors about our Yamahas start (misinformation). His total of 17,344 km is less then your 60 day record but my hat is off to both of you!

I started my record attempt this year with an original factory engine that already had 22,605 miles on it.

The record is now 19,574.45 kilometers or 12,163 miles.

Got to love them four strokes.

 

[yamadoo]

Great thread!

Good news the competition is coming and all MFG will have to improve. SO we get better sleds from ALL.

I know the marine guys love the E tech 2 strokes. Really they are so different than a normal 2 stroke we have to be careful not to generalize what we think we know.

I would love it if they could make a motor better than my SMOOOOTH Apex, find it hard to believe, may be possible.

Longevity will have to be proven in the snow and cold, I guess it is there in the water.

It is all getting better. LET IT SNOW

Yamadoo

 

[cannondale27]

To me the biggest argument 2st guys had in the 2-vs-4st argument is simplicity vs complexity and cost of 4st.Well these new 2strokes are quickly approaching the parts count and complexity of the 4st motors and probably cost also.Has anyone priced the D.I. injector assembly?If its anything like the diesel injectors they are big $.

 

[hondo]

SJ,



It took two motors last year (2007 season) by a gentleman from Quebec, to set the Guinness World 60 Day Snowmobile Record, bumping the record from 11,604.6 kilometers 7,211 miles to 11,605 kilometers or 7,211.25 miles.

Ref: SnoTech Magazine Oct/Nov 2007 Issue.

If you read his journal you will find that it did not take two motors to set the 60 day record of 11,605kms. This happened a few weeks later at 16,980 km. Lost a piston and scored the jug. New piston and jug does not equate a new motor. This is how rumors about our Yamahas start (misinformation). His total of 17,344 km is less then your 60 day record but my hat is off to both of you!

I started my record attempt this year with an original factory engine that already had 22,605 miles on it.

The record is now 19,574.45 kilometers or 12,163 miles.

Got to love them four strokes.

Oops,

Not trying to start any misinformation, or propaganda.

I am only interested in 100% fact.

I see my error, I used kilometers, instead of using miles.

Please accept my apologies...

It is a fact that: No "engine rebuilds" have been required in 36,033 miles or 58,010.76 kilometers on this original factory engine.

Thanks for the clarification.