crazyyamaha
Extreme
Talked to a Yamaha factory rep test driver today at wausau grass drags about when is Yamaha going to put a factory turbo on its sleds so it can be the big dog. He said "Yamaha has no desire to put a turbo on its snowmobiles at this time. I said "why not ? Polaris has one surely Yamaha could make it very reliable at low boost pressures ,and that they could offer it as a snow check option." He said he knows they have the ability to do it reliably they just don't want to go that route at this time." I said " he should tell them that is what some customers would like,and that is what Yamaha needs so it can get into the number one spot." His response was " he doesn't know what Yamaha has on the prototype sleds till about a week before he gets to see them." So there is hope . WE need to bombard Yamaha with emails so they can see there is really is an interest in this type of product. :ORC
Bakemono
TY 4 Stroke Guru
That would be fine and dandy if you could e-mail Yamaha. They dont list an e-mail on their website though.
I did e-mail Yamaha Japan once though and they were actually really nice and very quick to respond. We could maybe do that.
I did e-mail Yamaha Japan once though and they were actually really nice and very quick to respond. We could maybe do that.
alaskanbowtie
Expert
>>>>crazyyamaha said:
YES, I've been saying this exact thing for a year now, (I'm sure others have too). Market wise it makes NO sense for them to NOT offer a turbo.....? But they don't seem to want to be number one, they never have really gone the extra mile to perfect things or do what it takes to have the best sled performance wise, just nice dependable well rounded sleds. Like the Mnt. sleds of 2000 through 2005, they sucked when it really came right down to it, Why wouldn't they engineer a better rear suspension and boost the H.P. a bit with a longer track ? I just don't think they care about being in the number one spot or certain things would be done differently. I like there current sleds and the Phazer is a great step forward but in reality it is a 500 lb sled with 80 h.p. How many other sleds are offered in the same weight with 40 to70 h.p. more ? There not 4 strokes I know but you see what I'm saying. For Yamaha to ever be truly competitive in the big dawg arena they need the turbo, why not go all the way and be number one without question ? Seems like a know brainer to me. I can guarantee if Cat comes out with a dependable boosted mnt. sled from kawasaki's engines they will sell a ton! I hope Yamaha realizes what they are missing.....I sadly doubt it will happen any time soon for either of them unfortunately!
Jack_Shaft
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
alaskanbowtie said:
Surely you mean Suzuki.
Jack_Shaft
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
What you all fail to realize is that Yamaha builds what it feels will get them the highest return on their investment dollars.
In the words of Henry Ford (on the invention of the automobile):
"If I asked the people what they wanted, I would have built a better a horse and carriage."
I feel that Yamaha follows this philosophy.
In the words of Henry Ford (on the invention of the automobile):
"If I asked the people what they wanted, I would have built a better a horse and carriage."
I feel that Yamaha follows this philosophy.
Bakemono
TY 4 Stroke Guru
How much is a turbo going to run up the MSRP? Are people going to go for a 180 hp Apex that lists for $13,000-$15,000?
As far as the Phazer goes. Yamaha needed a nice, entry-level 4-stroke to replace the Venom. The Phazer fills that need nicely. Not everyone needs 150 hp to have fun and the buzz surrounding the release of the Phazer shows you that there is a market for a small, light and affordable 4-stroke sled. Yamaha never designed it to be a lake racer.
I personally think the '07 Phazer is just the tip of the iceberg for the FX chassis. What are the haters going to say if next year Yamaha brings out a 120 hp engine in the FX chassis?
As far as the Phazer goes. Yamaha needed a nice, entry-level 4-stroke to replace the Venom. The Phazer fills that need nicely. Not everyone needs 150 hp to have fun and the buzz surrounding the release of the Phazer shows you that there is a market for a small, light and affordable 4-stroke sled. Yamaha never designed it to be a lake racer.
I personally think the '07 Phazer is just the tip of the iceberg for the FX chassis. What are the haters going to say if next year Yamaha brings out a 120 hp engine in the FX chassis?
crazyyamaha
Extreme
Polaris's fst doesn't cost $2000 to$5000 more than their other sleds .When things are mass produced the price comes down. Aftermarket turbos cost alot because they are not mass produced.
Octane said:How much is a turbo going to run up the MSRP? Are people going to go for a 180 hp Apex that lists for $13,000-$15,000?
As far as the Phazer goes. Yamaha needed a nice, entry-level 4-stroke to replace the Venom. The Phazer fills that need nicely. Not everyone needs 150 hp to have fun and the buzz surrounding the release of the Phazer shows you that there is a market for a small, light and affordable 4-stroke sled. Yamaha never designed it to be a lake racer.
I personally think the '07 Phazer is just the tip of the iceberg for the FX chassis. What are the haters going to say if next year Yamaha brings out a 120 hp engine in the FX chassis?
I agree, I think the FX is just the tip, a hint of the new three cylinder replacement. I think it will be slightly larger to fit the three cylinder, maybe turbo-ed, I can dream.
Yamahnator
TY 4 Stroke Guru
I doubt it would ever happen but what would be nice is if their lineup went.
Phazer, Exciter, Turbo Phazer, Turbo Exciter. Plus the various long track equivalents of each.
That truly would wipe out completely the "weight" discussion.
Phazer, Exciter, Turbo Phazer, Turbo Exciter. Plus the various long track equivalents of each.
That truly would wipe out completely the "weight" discussion.
Tork
TY 4 Stroke God
Yeah but you guys fail to realize that Polaris slaps a turbo on that FST as a bandaid. They use a run of the mill 2 cylinder probably because they do not have any world class 4 stroke technology at their finger tips.
Yamaha is giving us true world class 4 stroke technology, high revving 5 valve per cylinder designs that are running over 150 NA HP per 1000cc.
Only reason we are getting such a hi-tech engine at a competitive price is because of the bigger motorcycle and watercraft markets. They have the designs and many of the parts in their bins to make our sled engines. That is why we get a lot of engine in what is a small (snowmobile) market
For clues into future engines from Yamaha, look at the motorcycle and watercraft models. How many turbos do you see?
Plus Yamaha cooperates with the aftermarket turbo and SC guys giving them prototypes of new models way early. The year they stop giving out protos to tuners is probably a clue that they are building their own boosted sled.
If they do come out with a boosted mountain sled I think is going to have to be $15,000 because they dont have the parts in the bins, and the production numbers would be small. Plus they have to warranty them. An aftermarket guys does not have to warranty your expensive 4 cylinder engine.
Yamaha is giving us true world class 4 stroke technology, high revving 5 valve per cylinder designs that are running over 150 NA HP per 1000cc.
Only reason we are getting such a hi-tech engine at a competitive price is because of the bigger motorcycle and watercraft markets. They have the designs and many of the parts in their bins to make our sled engines. That is why we get a lot of engine in what is a small (snowmobile) market
For clues into future engines from Yamaha, look at the motorcycle and watercraft models. How many turbos do you see?
Plus Yamaha cooperates with the aftermarket turbo and SC guys giving them prototypes of new models way early. The year they stop giving out protos to tuners is probably a clue that they are building their own boosted sled.
If they do come out with a boosted mountain sled I think is going to have to be $15,000 because they dont have the parts in the bins, and the production numbers would be small. Plus they have to warranty them. An aftermarket guys does not have to warranty your expensive 4 cylinder engine.
alaskanbowtie
Expert
Tork and Yamanator are both correct
I think your thoughts are on par with what I hope for, but doubt it wil happen any time soon for sure. Tork sounds like he has it pretty much correct. They make incredible sleds with there technology but as another poster said they want to make profit not say were number one, that comes last , unfortunately. I still think that if they wanted to dominate the market the turbo has to be an option, there's know other way. If they were able to massage the 120 to 140ish h.p. (which isn't that hard to accomplish) and stuff it in the FX chassis it would still be around 550 lbs and 140 h.p. , Mnt. version, trail would be a bit lighter but not equivalent to the competition! Still way behind the competition in h.p. to weight ratio ! This is where the turbo resolves this problem ! Ideally asnow checked option for a S/C or Turbo'd 120 in the FX chassis with a 151 x 15 or a 159x15 proprietary type lighter tack would be the market killer, making 180 to 200 h.p. ! BUT actually make the approach angle low from the factory instead of the steeper angles they've always came out with. Why can't we have a drop and rolled angle from the factory like Doo does ? Yes I meant suzuki....LOL .
>>>Yamahnator said:
I think your thoughts are on par with what I hope for, but doubt it wil happen any time soon for sure. Tork sounds like he has it pretty much correct. They make incredible sleds with there technology but as another poster said they want to make profit not say were number one, that comes last , unfortunately. I still think that if they wanted to dominate the market the turbo has to be an option, there's know other way. If they were able to massage the 120 to 140ish h.p. (which isn't that hard to accomplish) and stuff it in the FX chassis it would still be around 550 lbs and 140 h.p. , Mnt. version, trail would be a bit lighter but not equivalent to the competition! Still way behind the competition in h.p. to weight ratio ! This is where the turbo resolves this problem ! Ideally asnow checked option for a S/C or Turbo'd 120 in the FX chassis with a 151 x 15 or a 159x15 proprietary type lighter tack would be the market killer, making 180 to 200 h.p. ! BUT actually make the approach angle low from the factory instead of the steeper angles they've always came out with. Why can't we have a drop and rolled angle from the factory like Doo does ? Yes I meant suzuki....LOL .
Bakemono
TY 4 Stroke Guru
I agree with Tork. Yamaha doesnt need to turbocharge their engines to keep up in the horsepower wars.
They could probably get 170 hp out of the Apex if they went to the 1050cc FX watercraft motor.
They could probably get 170 hp out of the Apex if they went to the 1050cc FX watercraft motor.
alaskanbowtie
Expert
it's not just the H.P. I'm talking about
Hell Yamaha could get the 175 h.p. out of the current motor with some cam changes and a few other things, Ask Ulmer racing or Fundy power sports they already do, actually around the 185 mark, (your missing my point). They are still the highest weight per H.p. at 175 h.p. . The only thing that will eliminate this is a turbo, not a few more horse power but a considerable jump in H.P. Same scenario with a 120 h.p. FX chasis , it will still be the heaviest 120 h.p. sled on the market, "except" in comparison to the other manufacturers 4 strokes. I'm not saying they don't have the ability to compete with everyone else's H.p. ratings and even beat them by a bit , the weight to h.p. ratio is what will never allow a N/A 4 stoke to equal a 2 stroke , especially on the mountain sleds, UNLESS they boost them , 6 lbs or 8 lbs is all they need, WALLA Yamaha is number one ! I snow checked an 07' Apex Mnt. so bashing yamaha is NOT what I'm doing simply stating the bottom line, reality !!! I like Yamaha, just as much as most of you on this site, this doesn't mean I don't want to smear all the haters with a sled that is far superior to anything Skidoo makes in PERFORMANCE, not just technology. For once I'd love to see team blue number one!
>>>>Octane said:
Hell Yamaha could get the 175 h.p. out of the current motor with some cam changes and a few other things, Ask Ulmer racing or Fundy power sports they already do, actually around the 185 mark, (your missing my point). They are still the highest weight per H.p. at 175 h.p. . The only thing that will eliminate this is a turbo, not a few more horse power but a considerable jump in H.P. Same scenario with a 120 h.p. FX chasis , it will still be the heaviest 120 h.p. sled on the market, "except" in comparison to the other manufacturers 4 strokes. I'm not saying they don't have the ability to compete with everyone else's H.p. ratings and even beat them by a bit , the weight to h.p. ratio is what will never allow a N/A 4 stoke to equal a 2 stroke , especially on the mountain sleds, UNLESS they boost them , 6 lbs or 8 lbs is all they need, WALLA Yamaha is number one ! I snow checked an 07' Apex Mnt. so bashing yamaha is NOT what I'm doing simply stating the bottom line, reality !!! I like Yamaha, just as much as most of you on this site, this doesn't mean I don't want to smear all the haters with a sled that is far superior to anything Skidoo makes in PERFORMANCE, not just technology. For once I'd love to see team blue number one!
Tork
TY 4 Stroke God
I agree if yamaha spun the sled motors like the R1 bike engine (12,500 RPM isnt it?) and bumped it 100ccs they could be over 180 HP naturally asperated HP easily.
Does anybody know how many Turbo engines Yamaha has produced? I think it is only one, the 82-84 XJ650 motorcycle. Do any others come to mind?
I suspect they could stay under 1000ccs because going above that may be an issue for the insurance companies. Anybody know if there might be something to that?
Does anybody know how many Turbo engines Yamaha has produced? I think it is only one, the 82-84 XJ650 motorcycle. Do any others come to mind?
I suspect they could stay under 1000ccs because going above that may be an issue for the insurance companies. Anybody know if there might be something to that?
Bakemono
TY 4 Stroke Guru
^I agree. A lot of insurance companies are hesistant to insure big iron.
I go through American Family and they used to not insurance anything 800cc or bigger. I used to own a '99 Polaris 700 XC SP and was 19 years old at the time and they were really hesistant to insure me on that sled. They did, but I payed through the you-know-what for insurance on that sled.
They have changed that recently and will cut you some slack if its a 4-stroke sled.
I go through American Family and they used to not insurance anything 800cc or bigger. I used to own a '99 Polaris 700 XC SP and was 19 years old at the time and they were really hesistant to insure me on that sled. They did, but I payed through the you-know-what for insurance on that sled.
They have changed that recently and will cut you some slack if its a 4-stroke sled.
