02 sensor which 1 to buy

[venom]

gona be getting a supercharger installed on a 2006 apex mountain.Also doing headshim instead of running race gas,need info on which 02 sensor to buy.........live in AB canada......... thanks

 

[HAMMER]

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STAND ALONE KIT
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/xcart/customer/product.php?productid=16164&cat=252&page=1

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INSTALLATION MANUALS
XD-16 http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/support/manual/XD16_Manual.pdf

LC-1 http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/support/manual/LC-1_Manual.pdf

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Welded bung in for probe about 1" before muffler, on right side, angled so that the wiring would exit between heat shield and tunnel... Ran wiring between seat and tunnel... Very tight fit... Use caution when routing so wires do not get pinched... Tapped into wiring for reverse system, "key-on" power source, in right foot well... Didn't take any pictures of the probe install but I did take one of how I mounted the display on the bars... See link to thread below... The display is not waterproof so I carry a sandwich bag and a rubber band to cover it when necessary... The display is VERY bright, so you can easily read it in direct sunlight, even through the baggy.

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http://www.ty4stroke.com/viewtopic.php?t=29659

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[rxrider]

venom - Welcome to TY

Hammer - Thanks for info on the XD-16, I am going to install it on my sled as well.

 

[Yummy]

May I ask: Is O2 sensor only for people ridding the mountains, so the engine get the right reading on the elevation level. If I install SC on my trail sled, Do I have to worry about O2 sensor?

 

[HAMMER]

It's not a mandatory item for everyone... BUT...it's highly recommended (and boost gauge)

I'm one of those people that cannot live with "close enough" tuning.

I want to know exactly where I'm at so I installed a wideband air/fuel meter.

Excerpt from NHRA article:

When all-out performance counts, racers will look far and wide for every possible advantage. Whether they are trying to achieve ultimate consistency and/or repeatability or just seeking low elapsed time, chances are they have a data-logging computer and are examining closely the functions that are vital to performance. A most critical function is monitoring the engine's air/fuel ratio. Tuning a carburetor or electronic-fuel-injection system to consistently produce the optimum air/fuel ratio will always lead to maximum horsepower.

Racers, the smart creatures they are, figured out that engines make maximum horsepower at a given air/fuel ratio; however, they needed a way to monitor the air/fuel ratio. In most cases the target air/fuel ratio for naturally aspirated engines will be between 12.8:1 and 13.2:1 whereas supercharged, turbocharged, and nitrous-injected engines will like a richer mixture between 11.5:1 and 12.5:1. Each vehicle is different.

In theory, there's a "perfect" air-to-fuel ratio that will result in complete combustion of the fuel and maximum efficiency of the engine. This ratio, called the stoichiometric ratio, is regarded in the automotive industry as 14.7:1 (air to fuel). Therefore, when an internal-combustion engine is running at 14.7:1, all of the fuel will be burned and optimum fuel efficiency will be achieved.

If the air/fuel ratio is altered so that there is less air (with the same amount of fuel), there will be residual fuel after combustion; this is termed a "rich" mixture. Rich mixtures lead to increased emissions and can cause a drop in power in racing conditions. In contrast, more air (for the amount of fuel) will cause the mixture to be lean. Lean mixtures cause excessive heat and can be the root of engine-damaging detonation.

Mountain Performance (MPI) gives a wide range for air/fuel requirements on their (10lb boost) supercharger kits.

Idle - 12.5:1 to 15:1
Cruise - 11:1 to 14:1
WOT - 10:1 to 13:1

Detonation is the enemy in boosted applications... An alternative to the O2 sensor would be the Parker Motorsports "Knock Sensor"... I don't run one but the people that do swear by them... A little insurance policy for your investment... Engine replacements are expensive !!!

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http://parkermotorsports.com/products.php

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[venom]

Thanks rxrider for the welcome and thanks Hammer for the info! The stand alone kit looks good. Great pics of sled! What rpm do you run your sled at? The dealer that is doing the install on my stage one kit says 10 - 11lbs of boost at 10,500rpm.

Can't wait for snow!!

 

[Anonymous]

I do run a LM-1 (datalogger) with auxbox, and wideband and XD gauge, so I can log several vital engine parameters

 

[lancef53]

Does anybody know if you can run leaded fuel thru those sensors? I would like to run 100 LL if possible, probably mixed about 50-50. It is easier to get my hands on the av gas than the race fuel.

 

[rxrider]

You can but sensor life is shotened by a lot when running leaded fuel. Some guys have killed the sensor in matter of miles on leaded fuel, other guys tells that the NTK sensor (manufactured by NGK) can take leaded fuel and still survive.

 

[HAMMER]

Does anybody know if you can run leaded fuel thru those sensors?

It's been discussed here before....yes or no....is personal preference.
http://www.ty4stroke.com/viewtopic.php?t=26146

What rpm do you run your sled at?

I run straight VP C10 (non-oxygenated/unleaded/100octane) with the 26/24 overdrive pulleys... I ride a wide range of temps and elevations so I'll let it bounce off 11,000-11,200rpm without hitting the rev limiter (5500ft/10-20*F/12lbs boost) out of the parking lot in the mornings... There's lots of cold dense air available so you'll make more power, which, will make it easier to overcome the clutching... The reason I let it rev so hard at the lower elevations is, once I get to altitude (8500+ft/30-40*F/10lbs boost) in the afternoons warmer temps and less dense air the clutching will pull the rpm down into 10,800-10,700-10,600rpm where I spend the majority of my time riding... NOTE: that this is with 26/24 pulleys NOT the 26/22 (1.18:1) pulleys that came with the kit.

APEX Stage-I SC 26/24 Pulleys (1.08:1 overdrive)

Compressor Wheel RPM:

1500 x 12.67 x 1.08 = 20,525
3000 x 12.67 x 1.08 = 41,050
5000 x 12.67 x 1.08 = 68,418
7000 x 12.67 x 1.08 = 95,785
9000 x 12.67 x 1.08 = 123,152
10,500 x 12.67 x 1.08 = 143,678
11,000 x 12.67 x 1.08 = 150,519
11,200 x 12.67 x 1.08 = 153,256

ALL engines are subject to Relative Air Density / Density Altitude.

Example for my setup:
Atmospheric = 14.7psi + 14psi boost = Total Pressure = 28.7 (Approx 260hp)
Atmospheric @ 8500ft feet = 10.7psi + 10psi boost = Total Pressure 20.7psi
Approximate Pressure Loss 28.7 - 20.7 = 8.0 --- 8/28.7 = 27.8%
260 x .278 = 72.2 = Approximately 187.8hp @ 8500ft depending on relative air density

As altitude is increased compressor wheel speeds must increase rpm to maintain a target boost pressure... To maintain a desired horsepower level at high-altitude a compessor wheel may have to spin more rpm than is efficient (compressor map) to maintain that target boost pressure... The result of going outside the 60% efficiency mark (compressor map) is a dramatic loss in horsepower even if boost pressure is high... This is caused by overheating the "charge air", which, causes a charge density drop... The cure for altitude horsepower loss is a larger compressor or lower your altitude... This is where the Stage-I supercharger is horsepower limited and the larger CFM (compressor map) turbochargers are able to "spool-up" and maintain a set boost pressure at high-altitudes... As long as they do not exceed 60% on their compressor map that is.

 

[lancef53]

Thanks for the link, I guess I missed that one.

I am not sure there was an rock solid answer, but considering how the lead in 100LL can screw up the plugs in my airplane if it is rich too long, I think I will just buy some race fuel and go with it, I don't want to have another worthless $400 snowmobile part, I have more than enough of those!!

 

[BlgsRX-1mtn]

I run the WMS A/F meter from MPI which comes with a Bosch Wideband LSU 4.2 O2 sensor. I got 800 miles on the O2 sensor and it is starting to act up now. It will still read the same numbers as when new but, it takes about one second to read now vs instant response to throttle applications. This is running VP-110 leaded and 91 pump fuel at 50/50.

Jim

 

[Srxspec]

I ran the WMS A/F meter from MPI for a short while and no offense, but it was too difficult for me to read. I am alot like Hammer and like to be able to read what it's showing at all times. I found the XD-16 gauge to work perfectly and flawlessly! That being said I run 3 Innovate Motorsports LM-1 with the XD gauge on race sleds and 3 XD-16 standalone gauges on my trail sleds and they have all worked flawlessly!

Yummy, if you want optimum performance and reliability out of your supercharger you will need a 02 sensor of some sort. After working with the Powercommander the MPI Doebeck/Techlusion fuel controller leaves alot to be desired. We will hopefully be offering a Powercommander available for the supercharger applications.

 

[4strokes are better than2]

i ran my ntk all last season on leaded av gas still working good almost 3000km

 

[Anonymous]

I run leaded fuel too, and have ... less than 300 miles on the sled.. and sensor still running great..

When it goes bad, I'll just change the sensor.. no big deal!