06 nytro, getting antifreeze in the engine oil??

[lindy06]

Well i got the sled together today. Head seemed to be normal as far as warp. Got it all together, new oil, filter, coolant, and gaskets. Sled fired right up. Checked it all over. Took it out and rode maybe 10 miles. Still right at the line with coolant and the oil is still normal. Seems to be good to go. we are going out for a ride tomorrow so i will know more, but i think that head gasket took care of the issue. The only thing i didnt do was change out the cam chain tensioner. My dealer wouldnt have one for another week and i was kind of itching to get it out of the middle of my shop. Thanks for all the advise.

 

[grizztracks]

Keep your ear on that engine. They don't recommend reinstalling the original tensioner but as long you're aware of the problem and keep listening for any abnormal engine noise you should be OK. I hope the gasket cured your problem.

 

[Dubblerage]

Yea Grizz is right, keep your ears open. Might be a good summer project. Good luck!

 

[lindy06]

Ok i will definetly keep my ears open. That was kind of what i was thinking was to do that tentioner in the summer when i have alittle more time. I also bought water pump seals but i didnt install them yet. I wanted to make sure the head gasket took care of the problem. So that would be a good time to do it all. What was the issue with these tensioners? They would loose their grab and loosen up? Compltely? to the point where the cam chain jumps?

 

[grizztracks]

I'm not sure what happens in there. I've heard to tight, to loose but the end result is that the timing jumps enough to cause a collision between valves and pistons. Mine made a noise which makes me believe the tensioner does not apply enough pressure. One thought I had was that the chain stretches to a point where the tensioner can longer make up the slack. I took the old tensioner apart and could not find anything that would indicate it was bad but when I put the new one in the noise was gone and 500 miles later it's still gone.

I think we all would like to know what changes Yamaha made to the updated tensioner and how they discovered that it might be a problem. Companies never seem to want to share that information with us. I didn't dare take apart the new tensioner and compare the two but if anyone wants to send me theirs I'd love to take it apart (like that's going to happen).

 

[Dubblerage]

Hey lindy06, Any idea on where to get the torque specs and torque pattern for those head bolts? Also, did you just re-use your head bolts, or did you buy new ones? I know it's not the same thing, but when I did my heads up on my Pontiac Firehawk, I bought new head bolts, since you basicaly elongated them when you install them, thus making them unreliable to re-use. Same thing, different?

Also, how's the sled? Still doing good? no new problems or mixing yet?
Thanks!

 

[lindy06]

Yes i reused my head bolts. I called my dealer on the torque specs. They said it was around 33 ft pounds. But you may want to call another source just to verify. My dealer isnt the most reputable. I just tourqed mine and went from inside bolts out. In a cross pattern. Just like any other head. Also im not 100% sure thats what the book would say to do either. I think im going to buy one.
Now for my sled. It runs great and after each ride the coolant bottle is still full. BUT when it sits for a night the damn bottle goes empty still I did check my oil last night and it didnt seem to be over full or noticeably milky. I topped off the coolant, rode it last night, and rode it pretty hard. Checked the bottle after i got off for the night and it was full. I go out this am and its empty agian. This piece is really beginning to fustrate me. Im going to check my oil tonight, but im sure it will be. The only thing i can think of is possibly the water pump seals. If it were a head gasket i would think it would leak coolant while im riding the piss out of it, not when it sits for the night. Sonow im not sure what to think.

 

[grizztracks]

You may have some air in the cooling system yet and its working its way out. keep topping off the bottle and watch the oil. It might be ok.

 

[Dubblerage]

Maybe your buddies are siphoning a little bit of coolant out each time, just to mess with ya!

 

[Dubblerage]

Might not be a bad idea to check all of your coolant hose clamps.......you never know, maybe one could be a hair loose and some could be slowly dripping out, somewhere out of sight. My bottle kept getting lower and lower, then I found one of my clamps to be loose and dripping on the head. I never smelled it, and it was so minute that it just burnt off, so I had no sitting water to know any better. I found it by chance when I was tearing mine down.

Grizz is right too, I do intake jobs on some cars for some side work, some you have to keep topping off till you get that air out. Just when you think it's full, you'll get another air burp! WTF!!!!!

 

[lindy06]

yeah im praying it has air in it. The thing that gets me is it didnt seem to do it the first night it sat, but i guess that doesnt mean anything.

 

[lindy06]

Checked the oil tonight. Its about a half inch overfull. Starting to get alittle milky. Looks like im back to Zero. I guess im going to change the water pump seals and by the looks of it the engine will have to come out and get split. I havent had this bad of luck with a sled since i owned a arctic cat.

 

[lindy06]

Does anyone know if there is ant other way for water to get in the oil? What is the oil cooler? Im looking on the mircrofish and it looks like the collant flows through this. Any one had experience with this? Also i dont know if the o-ring could be bad on the top coolant tube where it goes into the head? Just not sure where to go next. Im sure its sumthin stupid. Im trying to stay in good nature with this thing before i go trade it in on another skidoo. LOL

 

[Dubblerage]

I was looking at the service manual and saw that the installation of the head says as follows:

Tightening steps:
• Lubricate the cylinder head bolts and washers
with engine oil.
• Install the washers and cylinder head bolts.
• Tighten the cylinder head bolts in the proper
tightening sequence as shown
Cylinder head bolt (M10):
1st:
25 Nm (2.5 m · kg, 18 ft · lb)
• Loosen and retighten the cylinder head bolts in
the proper tightening sequence as shown.
Cylinder head bolt (M10):
2nd:
25 Nm (2.5 m · kg, 18 ft · lb)
• Tighten the cylinder head bolts further to reach
the specified angle 180° in the proper tightening
sequence as shown.
Cylinder head bolt (M10):
Final:
Specified angle 180°


So it looks like you tighten them to 18 ft lbs, loosen them up (maybe helps the gasket to take a set), then tighten them again to 18 ft lbs. Once that is done you tighten them another half turn (180 degrees).

I asked you awhile back what you torqued them to, and you said you dealer told you 33 ft lbs. Well, by the sounds of this from the manual, once you snug them up to 18 ft lbs and go another 180 degress, that would probably be a hell of alot more than 33 ft lbs.

Not saying this is your problem, but your head might not be tight enough and coolant is getting past it still.......

 

[lindy06]

Just pulled the sled apart again tonight. Found out the whole cause of this problem was the water pump. The bearing was shot and the impeller just kinda flops around. The whole back of the cover is a half inch thick with white #*$&@ from the coolant mixing with the oil. I wish i had checked that first, but at least now i know my sled inside and out. I see what your saying about the torque. I wonder what they were reading, possibly out of a different manual. But actually i did first torque them to 18 ft pnd cause thats what they first said, then i went up to 33. Believe it or not it proably was another 180 if not a hair more, so they should be safe. I did also put oil on the threads and washers. Im going tomorrow to order the bearing, i allready have the seals. Thanks again, and to anyone else that has a issue like this, and your plugs are clean and you dont smeel coolant i would shoot for the water pump first. O well now i know for next time.