2010 Apex fails to start

[Bluebullet]

Tried to start the old girl last week and here's what happened. (2010 Apex)
Kill switch on, turn key to run, Fuel pump turns on then shuts off, turn key to start position, starter rotates and fails to run...... Tried again same deal. Noticed gages went out while starter turning then comes back on when starter released.( never noticed this before) Put battery tender on and left for a couple hours. Returned to find same issue. Yesterday pulled sled out of the trailer and into garage. removed all panels, headlight etc to check electrical connections, all seem good. opened main wire harness to check ground clusters they look to be nice shape..... All read to ground. Never smell any fuel during attempted start. Battery before load reads 13.2 volts. I am now thinking that the starter could be drawing to many volts causing the voltage to drop below run voltage? Maybe why the dash goes out? No fault codes have been displayed. I have also checked all fuses.... I have the red relays that I updated last season..... I am going to get a better battery booster today and increase the amp output. This sled has over 17,000 miles and has the original starter. Please give me some more ideas?

 

[74Nitro]

If there are no codes showing, I would try new spark plugs first.

 

[sideshowBob]

As you know you need three things to run...check the simple things first...some ideas

Air...shouldn't be a problem but you could check exhaust for rodents plugging it solid

Fuel:
-fuel pump
-enough fresh fuel in tank to feed pump

Ignition:
-kill switch
-tether if installed
-fully charged battery
-check for spark...

If No spark
-wiring harness and ground blocks...maybe the mice got to the wiring
-check/replace spark plugs
-pull every fuse and visually inspect
-check that the oil pressure wire under battery tray is still connected to lower engine block...I think its grey...I learned this the hard way, over 10 years ago, after my first oil change on my Attak
-check stator although the 2010 should have the latest updated Apex stator already and more reliable then the early models
-ECU...again unlikely

Good luck and keep us posted

 

[Bluebullet]

Update:
- installed gage pod and light section, all wires hooked up
- Battery charged reads 13.2 VDC
- Intake still off sled
Turned key on, now have codes:
20 Intake air psi
13 Intake air psi sensor
22 Intake temp sensor
84 Tors
15 Throttle position sensor

Obviously 84 and 15 concerned as they may prevent startup!

I have fallowed this procedure but can't get codes to clear
- push and hold the reset and select button in with the key off
- turn key on while still holding buttons in.
- hold for approx. eight seconds and the word "diag" should appear
- push and hold the reset and select button again for two more seconds until the "01" appears
- use the select and reset button to go through the numbers till you reach the number 61 and 62
- 61 shows which code you have and 62 shows # of codes in the system
- go to number 62 and press the hand warmer switch up or down to erase the codes.
- turn off key to reset gauge
It seems to fail at the hand warmer section? ( hand warmer does function bars will go up and down)

code 62 shows #4
code 61 shows #0 ?????

Tried to start with no go. codes remain.
Unhooked battery left unhooked for a while.... Hooked back up. codes remain, getting frustrated to say the least!
Checked throttle play all good to spec!

 

[74Nitro]

Update:
- installed gage pod and light section, all wires hooked up
- Battery charged reads 13.2 VDC
- Intake still off sled
Turned key on, now have codes:
20 Intake air psi
13 Intake air psi sensor
22 Intake temp sensor
84 Tors
15 Throttle position sensor

Obviously 84 and 15 concerned as they may prevent startup!

I have fallowed this procedure but can't get codes to clear
- push and hold the reset and select button in with the key off
- turn key on while still holding buttons in.
- hold for approx. eight seconds and the word "diag" should appear
- push and hold the reset and select button again for two more seconds until the "01" appears
- use the select and reset button to go through the numbers till you reach the number 61 and 62
- 61 shows which code you have and 62 shows # of codes in the system
- go to number 62 and press the hand warmer switch up or down to erase the codes.
- turn off key to reset gauge
It seems to fail at the hand warmer section? ( hand warmer does function bars will go up and down)

code 62 shows #4
code 61 shows #0 ?????

Tried to start with no go. codes remain.
Unhooked battery left unhooked for a while.... Hooked back up. codes remain, getting frustrated to say the least!
Checked throttle play all good to spec!

They won't clear if they're active. The problem is either a ground block, or a finger connector block bringing live wires together that is dirty.

 

[Bluebullet]

Thanks Nitro, I have checked all the grounding blocks wires ........ all look clean and read out. I ordered a starter because she has been making a wired noise for a while now. Still cranks over but doesn't fire and codes remain active, can't reset. Had it on my charger and when I attempt a start the whole system voltage drops off from green. wait a couple min and returns back to green zone. Starter load drops voltage to low for start? Battery only couple years old and seems good. I will replace the starter and button everything back up and see where it takes me.

 

[74Nitro]

Thanks Nitro, I have checked all the grounding blocks wires ........ all look clean and read out. I ordered a starter because she has been making a wired noise for a while now. Still cranks over but doesn't fire and codes remain active, can't reset. Had it on my charger and when I attempt a start the whole system voltage drops off from green. wait a couple min and returns back to green zone. Starter load drops voltage to low for start? Battery only couple years old and seems good. I will replace the starter and button everything back up and see where it takes me.

Maybe load test the battery or try another battery.
Also, aside from the ground blocks, there are multiple places throughout the harness with what I call 'finger connectors'. These connect the same colour wires, not necessarily grounds.
In addition, the first three codes may all be caused by the airbox being off. Plug the intake temp sensor in.
84 and 15 are often related also, meaning they can both be caused by one problem.
Go into diagnostics(01) and see what TPS reading you get. Should be between 15-18 throttle closed and 95-100 throttle open.

 

[sideshowBob]

Try boosting the sled from with another battery...some batteries don't last long and a bad battery shows in cranking voltage drop.
I agree with 74Nitro and think you should check the TPS diagnostic as a defective TPS can wreak havoc with the sled.

 

[Bluebullet]

74, Go into diagnostics(01) and see what TPS reading you get. Should be between 15-18 throttle closed and 95-100 throttle open?? My codes skip from 09 to 24, 15 doesn't come up? where can i read TPS if 15 doesn't come up?
Thanks Slide and 74!

 

[Bluebullet]

OK I think I understand now.... 01 reads 00

 

[74Nitro]

OK I think I understand now.... 01 reads 00

Ok, you know how to bring up diagnostics?

 

[Bluebullet]

Yes here is what I have used:
I have fallowed this procedure but can't get codes to clear
- push and hold the reset and select button in with the key off
- turn key on while still holding buttons in.
- hold for approx. eight seconds and the word "diag" should appear
- push and hold the reset and select button again for two more seconds until the "01" appears
- use the select and reset button to go through the numbers till you reach the number 61 and 62
- 61 shows which code you have and 62 shows # of codes in the system
- go to number 62 and press the hand warmer switch up or down to erase the codes.
- turn off key to reset gauge
It seems to fail at the hand warmer section? ( hand warmer does function bars will go up and down)

code 62 shows #4
code 61 shows #0 ?????

 

[Bluebullet]

74, In the fault code chart for 15 on the left it shows 01 far right, so this is where it should read the 15-18?

 

[74Nitro]

Yes, 01 is for the TPS sensor and should read between 15-18 throttle closed. When in diagnostics 01, if you slowly open the throttle this number will go up to almost 100 at full throttle.

 

[74Nitro]

Codes will not clear of they are active, meaning you still have the problem.