2020 Release

[Rich Kay]

It would be rare for competitive companies to uniformly raise prices, the reality is with good snow you have more riders, more volume, lower prices as competition heats up. The distance between supply and demand changes at the end of the cycles. With one really good winter, demand might outstrip supply but the change is too fast for a company to react to so the dealers end up taking less discount but SRP (the company set price) probably will remain static. A prediction for multiple good winters would probably have more supply than demand, or at least closer alignment between them, which causes prices to moderate or even go down, one really bad winter will leave stock on the shelves. Dealers might play the game but it is much harder for a company to react to.



People will always play, they will just move towards compromise. Off brands, used, cheaper parts, etc.. The big brands built themselves off of the backs of the every day joe, unless they find that association again they will limit themselves ultimately in how much market that they can create (or save).

AH.... didn't know that...crazy, wow.

 

[whitedust1]

I’m not so sure 1 winter of good snow will get any snowmobile OEM back on track. I think customers have gone on to other things like trips to warm beaches for an all inclusive week with the wifey and friends or downhill skiing where snow can be made.
Snowmobiling for the 25-35 old peeps will be more of a rental than buy to own. The world is changing rapidly now and so are markets for snowmobiling. The best market for selling snowmobiles is now for the aging boomer after boomers fade away good luck to all the OEMs.

 

[earthling]

I’m not so sure 1 winter of good snow will get any snowmobile OEM back on track. I think customers have gone on to other things like trips to warm beaches for an all inclusive week with the wifey and friends or downhill skiing where snow can be made.
Snowmobiling for the 25-35 old peeps will be more of a rental than buy to own. The world is changing rapidly now and so are markets for snowmobiling. The best market for selling snowmobiles is now for the aging boomer after boomers fade away good luck to all the OEMs.

You very well could be right but 1 good winter of snow won't hurt sales and it certainly won't accelerate moving to other activities. Vacations are transient, you don't really get to do that every day like you can with local sports and there are plenty of areas in the snow belt where skiing just isn't an option. The bigger problem I think it discretionary income, its harder to come by especially for the younger crowd.

 

[Yamajon1]

Same hole that Harley has worked itself in to. The average Joe that supported them for ever has been pushed out by the hi prices and now that the novelty of owning one is wearing off and the sales are fallen they are in trouble. All the new technology is great but when it comes at such a high price these company’s need to understand that the working family man only has so much disposable income to play with. Sleds are to expensive for kids to get in to like myself and my friends did.

 

[whitedust1]

You very well could be right but 1 good winter of snow won't hurt sales and it certainly won't accelerate moving to other activities. Vacations are transient, you don't really get to do that every day like you can with local sports and there are plenty of areas in the snow belt where skiing just isn't an option. The bigger problem I think it discretionary income, its harder to come by especially for the younger crowd.

I don’t think 1 good snow winter will do much for sales of new sleds yes wake up the old iron that might destroy itself creating a need but for the most part riders will use what they already own. Once enthusiasts have moved on to other recreational activities it will be difficult to get them back when they recall the pain of too many snowless winters. One needs lots of snow and cold to ride snowmobiles and I live in a area well known for good trails and snow but no one rides everyday trails are empty during the week. Weekends are crowded but many riders tired of chasing snow year after year so stayed home or decided money was better spent on family winter vacations. We all have money and how that money is spent on recreation is a personal decision. If your sled breaks and needs serious repairs I see riders parting out and bailing out of snowmobiling not spending money to stay in. Some of this is the boomers just saying screw it I’m done not worth the investment anymore with so little use. Then think of the 25 -35 year olds that have so many financial needs pulling on them snowmobiling is best served by a rental expense and walk away from ownership. The haydays of snowmobile sales are behind us not in front of us. I see less demand for new sleds and Yamaha inventory reduction plan might very well be the future norm buy it in the Spring or you dont have it for the winter for all OEMS.

 

[WillowAce]

Sleds are to expensive for kids to get in to like myself and my friends did.

This is a valid point, The first new truck I ever bought cost less than a 2019 Sidewinder. In college we always had new sleds. If you were broke you watched the local Ski-Doo dealer to see how many boxes were left in March, in April if you could scrape a couple thousand bucks together you could walk away with a brand new snowmobile.

 

[20/80]

New sleds today are getting very hard for the average Joe to purchase with the cost of them, even the used market now is pricy, can't see myself paying 10 grand for a 2015 Ski Doo 800 renegade with 5500 miles on it but that is what people want for them, but a 2015 Apex with 5500 miles on it I would consider, this is another area 4 strokes shine compared to 2 strokes, but yet you pay big money for a 2 stroke when new.

 

[SumpBuster]

I’m not so sure 1 winter of good snow will get any snowmobile OEM back on track. I think customers have gone on to other things like trips to warm beaches for an all inclusive week with the wifey and friends or downhill skiing where snow can be made.
Snowmobiling for the 25-35 old peeps will be more of a rental than buy to own. The world is changing rapidly now and so are markets for snowmobiling. The best market for selling snowmobiles is now for the aging boomer after boomers fade away good luck to all

True. Not knocking the next gen. but (generally speaking) they just don't talk sleds in summer...too many distractions from 'toys'. I never considered snowmobiles 'toys'. More of a sport, at least the way we do it. Takes a lot of energy and dedication to ride, and keep sleds top notch, so a mechanical element is there too. I approach a typical (for guys that work) Saturday ride like a race ...sled is clean, prepared, and ready to rumble! The overall performance of the machine is what attracts me, and how much I can push myself and adapt to its quirks and yeah, beat the buddies either over the moguls, or out in the fields! Game on! Not many today have the disease.....my son in law can take a $1500 mxz and fix it up and run the he!! out of it and have a blast! He LOVES to ride, as many of us did, and still do. Its not just the money...TONS of decent used sleds out there...

 

[Joe ltx-le]

True. Not knocking the next gen. but (generally speaking) they just don't talk sleds in summer...too many distractions from 'toys'. I never considered snowmobiles 'toys'. More of a sport, at least the way we do it. Takes a lot of energy and dedication to ride, and keep sleds top notch, so a mechanical element is there too. I approach a typical (for guys that work) Saturday ride like a race ...sled is clean, prepared, and ready to rumble! The overall performance of the machine is what attracts me, and how much I can push myself and adapt to its quirks and yeah, beat the buddies either over the moguls, or out in the fields! Game on! Not many today have the disease.....my son in law can take a $1500 mxz and fix it up and run the he!! out of it and have a blast! He LOVES to ride, as many of us did, and still do. Its not just the money...TONS of decent used sleds out there...

I couldn't have said it better. Snowmobiling the way we do it is not just playing around with "toys ".
You make a choice when you spend 15 plus on a snowmobile, then the truck and trailer.
I tell the naysayers at work all the same thing.
"Snowmobiling is NOT a hobby it's a life style !"

I'm hoping for Yamaha to only sell the best in the future. I like the idea of building only the bad #*$&@ machine. If someone wants a cheap sled to go play in the field they can by doo or pooo .

 

[srvfan]

Yamaha needs 100hp ish and 150-160 hp ish options in a strong not necessarily lightest chassis with ride and handling that beats or at least equal to skidoo gen 4.
How bout an upgraded Viper Chassis with all the stupid hard to service issues fixed and a M-20 airwave rear suspension stock from factory. Ohh yes and on the Viper fix the ridiculously crap ECU. as far as boondocker sleds go I don't know they are all the rage last few years but they are coming down hard on off trail riding in the east due to landowner complaints and trail closures so that may be a waning fad. When you have a purpose built sled and no place to ride it. Kids think they are cool or something if they get one. i don't get it cause they suck on trail and they are illegal off trail in every New England state except Maine. Even there only legal in certain areas.
Yup H.D. has issues, same way Cadillac did for many years until they fired management and got smart .Cadillac's average buyer was somewhere between 70 and dead. Not a good demographic. No small bikes, no adventure bikes, no sport bikes, no sport touring bikes ,the list goes on........Bikes all built for a rapidly aging demographic that like Cadillac of years past is rapidly approaching the 70-dead age group. The crazy thing is just like with GM/Cadillac the average enthusiast has recognized this for years , and just like Cadillac management has done nothing ? The only thing I wondered when GM went bankrupt was why it took so long.

 

[cobrajet ltx dx]

I tell the naysayers at workall the same thing.
"Snowmobiling is NOT a hobby it's a life style !"

So so true.... I have said that a lot over the years!!!!

 

[WillowAce]

The only thing I wondered when GM went bankrupt was why it took so long.

Oddly GM produced vehicles at a profit, what killed them were the union negotiated benefits. HD, simply outpriced their position in the market. With-that-said, Yamaha has an advantage the other OEMs don't have. They are the best capitalized in the snowmobile market with other product lines that can, and will, carry short-term losses. I would not want to be a Ski-Doo or Polaris dealer in today's market. Look at the leftovers from those two and 2019 quotas are the same as last year. They both have to sell X sleds a year to keep doors open. On the other hand Yamaha and Cat are falling back and relying on other lines to cover. I think thy hat Cat releasing new lines this year while Yamaha doesn't is a collaborative decision aimed at the chess game rather than the sled game. Let's see what happens next year? Maybe Yamaha's turn to release while Cat sits back. Plainly said, neither Ski-Doo or Polaris can afford to play this game without killing off their dealers unless the market changes soon.

 

[SumpBuster]

Yamaha needs 100hp ish and 150-160 hp ish options in a strong not necessarily lightest chassis with ride and handling that beats or at least equal to skidoo gen 4.
How bout an upgraded Viper Chassis with all the stupid hard to service issues fixed and a M-20 airwave rear suspension stock from factory. Ohh yes and on the Viper fix the ridiculously crap ECU. as far as boondocker sleds go I don't know they are all the rage last few years but they are coming down hard on off trail riding in the east due to landowner complaints and trail closures so that may be a waning fad. When you have a purpose built sled and no place to ride it. Kids think they are cool or something if they get one. i don't get it cause they suck on trail and they are illegal off trail in every New England state except Maine. Even there only legal in certain areas.
Yup H.D. has issues, same way Cadillac did for many years until they fired management and got smart .Cadillac's average buyer was somewhere between 70 and dead. Not a good demographic. No small bikes, no adventure bikes, no sport bikes, no sport touring bikes ,the list goes on........Bikes all built for a rapidly aging demographic that like Cadillac of years past is rapidly approaching the 70-dead age group. The crazy thing is just like with GM/Cadillac the average enthusiast has recognized this for years , and just like Cadillac management has done nothing ? The only thing I wondered when GM went bankrupt was why it took so long.

LMAO...sorry, your statement reminded me of Moses, in the Ten Commandments, concerning the slaves making bricks...
'70 year old men by few Cadillacs, dead men buy none'.

 

[whitedust1]

Oddly GM produced vehicles at a profit, what killed them were the union negotiated benefits. HD, simply outpriced their position in the market. With-that-said, Yamaha has an advantage the other OEMs don't have. They are the best capitalized in the snowmobile market with other product lines that can, and will, carry short-term losses. I would not want to be a Ski-Doo or Polaris dealer in today's market. Look at the leftovers from those two and 2019 quotas are the same as last year. They both have to sell X sleds a year to keep doors open. On the other hand Yamaha and Cat are falling back and relying on other lines to cover. I think thy hat Cat releasing new lines this year while Yamaha doesn't is a collaborative decision aimed at the chess game rather than the sled game. Let's see what happens next year? Maybe Yamaha's turn to release while Cat sits back. Plainly said, neither Ski-Doo or Polaris can afford to play this game without killing off their dealers unless the market changes soon.

Yep it’s called separation without breaking anyone’s back during the wind down then next year bye bye your on your own. Lol

 

[rtx moose]

well its right there on the us patent search what yamaha has coming!!!these are facts not opinions..and there drawings are showing a turbo or supercharged 4 cylinder engine..yamaha designed chassis!!!also looks like at least another chassis but there is at least 2 new chassis coming out possibly 3...look for yourself!!!!and yes carbon fiber is part of the new chassis...say what you want but these are patents filed in june 2017.takes a while to read and figure out but its there..