2020 Release

[Sasquatch]

Humor me on this little conspiracy theory. It may or may not be off base.

It's 2010-2012, you are an executive in Yamaha business development crossing over multiple platforms around the world. And you are responsible for providing products to a dealer network for all seasons. You see the writing on the wall that the snowmobile business, as a whole, is declining in participants, and warming trends are shrinking the geographies that can use this technology.

You have a Yamaha dealer network that is anticipating a refresh to the tried and true Apex line as well as waiting on something new. But they realize this is a complimentary good to get them through the winter months. As their bread and butter products are the motorcycles, ATV, marine engines, and possibly watercraft, namely boats and waverunners.

A decision has to be made on if more R&D is put into a new platform or you concentrate on being an engine supplier. As then the responsibility of selling stock is on the engine buyer and not your dealer network. The goal, in fact, is to keep the dealer network happy. Two options are out there. We stop production cold turkey, or we give them some small revisions and start cleaning out dealer stock and MFG stock of components.

You then work out how many years of Bold New Graphics you can milk out of this revised apex in 2011. Keep the dealers happy, but also allow them the time to start looking at taking on another line for the snow business. Obviously maintaining the relationship with dealers and customers so that Yamaha is not dropped for the products where they lead in, and make the most money.

In that same time, one option is to help promote the best engine buyer (Arctic Cat) by cross branding some sleds, so that they can truly offer a new sled in 2014 that will give the dealers something to sell while they transition. To further this relationship, they work with Arctic Cat to offer a co-designed sled in 2017, which they realize should have been done the first time rather than shoe-horn a current engine into an existing chassis.

This whole time, production of Yamaha designed chassis has all but halted, and the final version is released as spring order only model in for 2019. The writing is now on the wall for the dealers. And yamaha has not lost them for all the other business. If they had stopped back in 2012 or 2014, the dealers may have been overwhelmed by the decision and jumped ship altogether. Now, they may have taken on AC, Polaris or BRP as their sled provider like so many have. Or dropped winter products.

This may be Yamaha's very long way of saying, yup, we maybe should not have gone 100% four stroke back in the early 2000's. But we are not gonna lose our #*$&@ over it. being an engine supplier is the best way to still make money. And they will probably do better than to get back into it again. This also allowed the dealers time to transition slowly. Offering up the AC built sled with Yamaha graphics is a band-aid for those that have not taken on another sled line.

I could very well be wrong. But CR didn't explain his departure other than a much needed retirement. But I bet he saw this coming, and with no new Yamaha designed sleds coming, one can lose their passion for the business side of it. There is literally no business reason for Yamaha to come up with something truly Yamaha. The dealers have to see this as well.

Oh I agree and is what I have been trying to say but no where near as well! CR hinted at a loss of a Yamaha identity and hoped people bought into this partner ship for the sake of Yamaha. I still say I'm so glad I have one of the last best sleds Yamaha ever made. I think that Yamaha ship has sailed why fix what is not broken?

The last transition that could be made is a 2S partnership and Yamaha tech working with Cat on their two strokes. I guess the agreement is almost done, we will see if its renewed. The wild card in the whole deal is the partner ship contract. The new one will have Textron influence written all over it. Will there be one?

 

[Sasquatch]

Not if the new Yamaha chassis and suspension is better than Cats. We will see.

Keep dreaming the dream, I do, but then I wake up and reality just sucks the life out of it! All I see is Cats all over the place , and in the Yamaha dealerships they don't know they are Cats. I now just embrace the fact Yamaha can't build sleds. I double dog dare them to prove me wrong!

 

[Sasquatch]

I agree with those points as well WannaViper. Very good points indeed.

AC needed a replacement for the Suzuki engines. And that was their middle of the road sled in the NA1100 and Top of the line 1100 Turbo. So the use of the 1049 filled that gap on the low end while development of the 998 and 998T was in the works. The 9000 series with 998T more than filled that gap. And Yamaha was able to take advantage of that R&D with different colored plastics and graphics. Same goes for the 120 and snoscoot. It filled two line ups. Keep in mind, the 120 was the first AC/Yamaha coop product before even the viper.

As for the 998, AC/Textron's use of it in the Wildcat XX also solidifies the money Yamaha spent creating it for their YXZ platform. Even better yet, that is is, for the most part, the same engine used in sledding with modifications.

The SRX is a nod to a legendary nameplate. Although many of us SRX owners were insulted that it was not pure Yamaha. I think most of us will get over it.

Our jaded image of what has happened and is happening will not change due to the blue in our blood. But business says otherwise.

The real beauty I see in all this is I can go back to Cat and not leave Yamaha. Is that a warp in the space time continuum? Back to whence I came from without leaving?

 

[cannondale27]

Keep dreaming the dream, I do, but then I wake up and reality just sucks the life out of it! All I see is Cats all over the place , and in the Yamaha dealerships they don't know they are Cats. I now just embrace the fact Yamaha can't build sleds. I double dog dare them to prove me wrong!

I see the same thing but never would say anything to those that honestly believe they are Yamahas since I know how bad it feels to know the truth. The Winder has more Yamaha in it than the Viper. Hopefully the % keeps going our way. But then I see the stupid Tuner Skis on the 19's and a little piece of me dies.

 

[yamadoo]

The real beauty I see in all this is I can go back to Cat and not leave Yamaha. Is that a warp in the space time continuum? Back to whence I came from without leaving?

I thought I was the only one thinking I may be back on a Cat some day yet NOT leave Yamaha. I kind feel that way on my yamacat I mean Viper that I love by the way.

 

[Snowaddict]

Let's go over what we have learned here:

1. Some believe there could be a CAT 2-smoke in a CAT chassis called a Yamaha...................that would be embarrassing
2. Some believe there could be a Yamaha 2-smoke in a CAT chassis........................................they are high
3. Some believe that Yamaha would build a new chassis & put a CAT 2-smoke in it................they are on CRACK!
4. SASQUATCH uses a lot of exclamation points when he gets mad

Steveo is always the voice of reason on TY. And entertainment!

 

[stevewithOCD]

On a serious note.
Why would Cat allow another 2-stroke engine in THEIR chassis to compete with THEIR own 2-stroke? It would be stupid & counterproductive for Cat.
Why would ANYBODY on this planet want a Yamaha with a Cat motor in a Cat chassis when they can go to a Cat dealer & buy...........A CAT!!!!
Why would Yamaha build a chassis & put a Cat 2-stroke in it? They are known for engine reliability & would not want to be known for poor engine quality unless they built it.

NOW there is one possibility here.
IF Yamaha does build a new chassis. A big IF. AND they needed a temporary 2-stroke until their own is fully developed & in production, they could use a Cat motor. SO, i apologize to all the Crack Addicts that may have been offended when i mentioned them a derogatory sentence in earlier post.

 

[stevewithOCD]

I've got MORE to say:

1. Yamaha building a 2-stroke is USELESS unless they put it in their own chassis.
2. Yamaha does still build 2-strokes, but they are boat motors with older technology.
3. IF Yamaha builds a new chassis, they will NEED a 2-stroke to go in their new chassis IF they intend to compete.
4. The word "IF" is one of the biggest words in the dictionary despite it's diminutive size.

 

[stevewithOCD]

For those of you that don't know, i spend my time on TY in the Sidewinder section. Because i own...........a Sidewinder. Stay with me boys.
I own an Arctic Cat with a Yamaha motor & clutch.
I will be very content in the future if this is the only "Yamaha" i can ride.
It has THE best front end. Probably 3rd for rear end, but still good.
The motor is INSANE. Because it's a Yamaha & because it's just friggin' INSANE!
Now this sled is built in TRF and it shows. There are a few things to be desired, like slide suspension that my skinny #*$&@ broke & the leaking oil tank that has NO gasket. The quality, fit & finish has definitely improved over the last few years.
So IF (that damn word again), Yamaha were to own the Cat chassis while Cat makes their own, it will still be built in TRF.
UNLESS the big Y has secretly retooled to build sleds. Hard to keep that big a move a secret.
So i will be happy in the future riding my Yamaha powered Arctic Cat..................unless i really like my friends Turbo Ace

 

[Mototown]

Reading that Yamaha can't build 2 strokes is kinda funny lol . Arctic cat is currently being dismantled by textron , chances of them investing mega bucks on there own 2 strokes to put into a new yam kitty in 2020 is slim & none .... now if your partner who has racing back ground building race motors , it's only makes sense for them to make u a competitive 2 stroke. If arctic cat is putting 2s in that chassis it will be Yamaha. If you look at motocross, Yamaha was the first switch over to 4 stroke race bikes , mostly because the emission threats down the road , which never came to reality. Now that Yamaha has a partner to split costs for development of new 2s sleds & trump making a laughing stock of global warming & emissions standards, chances are good ....

 

[SumpBuster]

For those of you that don't know, i spend my time on TY in the Sidewinder section. Because i own...........a Sidewinder. Stay with me boys.
I own an Arctic Cat with a Yamaha motor & clutch.
I will be very content in the future if this is the only "Yamaha" i can ride.
It has THE best front end. Probably 3rd for rear end, but still good.
The motor is INSANE. Because it's a Yamaha & because it's just friggin' INSANE!
Now this sled is built in TRF and it shows. There are a few things to be desired, like slide suspension that my skinny #*$&@ broke & the leaking oil tank that has NO gasket. The quality, fit & finish has definitely improved over the last few years.
So IF (that damn word again), Yamaha were to own the Cat chassis while Cat makes their own, it will still be built in TRF.
UNLESS the big Y has secretly retooled to build sleds. Hard to keep that big a move a secret.
So i will be happy in the future riding my Yamaha powered Arctic Cat..................unless i really like my friends Turbo Ace

Having trashed Cat for 40 years due to quality issues, but admiring some aspects of their sleds, I can sort of get away with owning one with minimal backlash from the peanut gallery. Not that I care...lol.
It's a fun sled for sure, and I really like the front end and the strength. I always checked my bulkhead on the apex after hitting something unexpected. We've torn up a few castings for sure, but this tube steel front design is good for at least a few more mental mph! And, I don't bottom on g outs! But the biggest plus is under the hood....and that is the heart and soul of a sled.

 

[whitedust1]

And that IMHO is anyone best bet if they want a two stroke from the partnership.

Reading that Yamaha can't build 2 strokes is kinda funny lol . Arctic cat is currently being dismantled by textron , chances of them investing mega bucks on there own 2 strokes to put into a new yam kitty in 2020 is slim & none .... now if your partner who has racing back ground building race motors , it's only makes sense for them to make u a competitive 2 stroke. If arctic cat is putting 2s in that chassis it will be Yamaha. If you look at motocross, Yamaha was the first switch over to 4 stroke race bikes , mostly because the emission threats down the road , which never came to reality. Now that Yamaha has a partner to split costs for development of new 2s sleds & trump making a laughing stock of global warming & emissions standards, chances are good ....

So if I follow your logic that textron is dismantling AC putting the division in a downward investment cycle why in the word would they share R&D 2s engine costs and tooling with Yamaha in a shrinking overall market? I don’t see bean counters from either company embracing that project. Lol I’m pretty sure Textron came to Yamaha with a gun to their head to buy X amount of units over last year and Yamaha said no freakin way SRX for 2019 or nothing the contract is winding down and inventory is too high. I’m also reasonably sure the OEM agreement will continue for some models BUT Yamaha is well positioned to go it alone with a limited build Apex replacement if that is the chosen path. Yamaha is equally well positioned to close it all down as well. I don’t see any possible way Yamaha would build a 2s engine at this time just no money to do so.

 

[biffdotorg]

Yamaha is equally well positioned to close it all down as well. I don’t see any possible way Yamaha would build a 2s engine at this time just no money to do so.

Exactly, they are positioned for sure. Without having the investment in their own chassis design, or MFG facility, and with their dealers taken care of, they can pull the plug at anytime. And the bigger picture, they are in the best position of all the MFG's to pull that plug. As their other offerings make way more money than all the other MFG's. AC is in the worst position now that Textron has separated the snow line as Arctic Cat, and everything else is Textron off road. They knew it was the first to be sold or shut down if they didn't turn it around. They are positioned as well.

BRP would be in good shape, but they are the market leader, so they have no worries. Polaris has diversified in bikes, and ROV with RZR and Ranger. So they are good as well. There again, having a large market share puts them in a good place.

I'm still of the opinion that if Yamaha moved to a boutique shop that still designed True Blue units with an all Yamaha chassis, and spring order only. I'm good with that. It helps them cut inventory costs as they will build only what is ordered. And it would make our little blue club much more exclusive. But I would also see $25K sleds from that type of model. And that would hurt a bit more than I care. It would be like ordering a Ferrari, where you had to show your ownership history to be allowed to place an order. HA!!

 

[1nc 2000]

Stevewith OCD must be sent on a mission to get some spy pictures of this new chassis! Will he go to Japan or Canada or TRF?

 

[snobill]