2020 Release

[Vmax]

I wouldn't say that Cat is junk, they make a fine sled/motor combo but Yamaha needs to build there own chassis and 2 stroke motors for me to consider buying one

 

[blueironranger]

I really have to wonder how much better Yamaha can do to build a better handling chassis than Procross. Working on my viper there are quite a few areas where I could see Yamaha Tech improve various parts to reduce weight and add strength like using the aluminum casting process they have to unify the lower A-arm frame and front engine cradle into one unit. The Procross front suspension still remains the best in the buisness, bar none, though the G4 Doo comes close now. The other great unknown is how long does Textron want to hang on the the Arctic Cat division since they already pulled/rebranded everything else BUT the sleds. I personally think that the Cat/Yamaha sled divisions are headed for a merger down the road.

 

[T-Bone]

Not ignoring the facts, I just take issue with its all about the two strokes, the story is so much deeper then that. They still needed a chassis, they always did and still do? Something they just can't seem to get right. Now with the Cat chassis the Yamaha guys are all praise to the chassis and how good it it is in the bumps, the corners and how great it is on and off trail. Finally Cat has two 2 strokes and I don't see them making great strides into Doo territory. But smile cause unless Yamaha leaves the partnership Cat two strokes are the best your going to get!



Really? They choose not to? They built a Nytro and it turned out to be a dud, they built a Phazer but it was not again what people wanted! They stuck with the delta box from 2003 till 2018, built three no four different skids refined the front suspension three or four times and none of either even came close to the competition and while they made some great refinements to it people where leaving for the 1200 Doo! Why? For the chassis and suspension.

So for a company that choose not to they sure tried and failed a lot! Which is why we are where we are today.

That’s good cause I never said it was just about the lack of a two-stroke engine. You are correct about the chassis. That is a major problem if you are a snowmobile manufacture and can’t produce quality chassis. I also said fit and finish is a factor as well. Sit on your Apex and just look at the quality of the plastics, materials and how they are finished and put together. Then go sit on a Sidewinder and tell me they are the same. They are not. I’m not saying the Sidewinder is a bad sled, but what I am saying is that as sled’s MSRPs climb to over $17,000, the quality of the materials, fit and finish of Yamaha’s flagship sled has gone way down. It’s all three not just one or the other. The owner of a sled can’t improve the chassis, engine (2 and 4) or the fit and finish of a sled and shouldn’t have to replace significant components of a suspension. All of those things need to be controlled by Yamaha and are major factors as to why we are having debates about what Yamaha brings to market in 2020.

 

[whitedust1]

Saw a new SRX on the showroom floor recently and the graphics had a crease. Maybe it can be corrected with a heat gun but I never ever saw that on a pure Yamaha sled. I didn’t say anything to the dealer figured not my role to point it out but just shows lack of fit and finish in TRF.

 

[cannondale27]

Would be nice to see some painted panels also. Nitpicking but rest do it. And it looks nice longer too.

 

[Wannaviper]

I really have to wonder how much better Yamaha can do to build a better handling chassis than Procross. Working on my viper there are quite a few areas where I could see Yamaha Tech improve various parts to reduce weight and add strength like using the aluminum casting process they have to unify the lower A-arm frame and front engine cradle into one unit. The Procross front suspension still remains the best in the buisness, bar none, though the G4 Doo comes close now. The other great unknown is how long does Textron want to hang on the the Arctic Cat division since they already pulled/rebranded everything else BUT the sleds. I personally think that the Cat/Yamaha sled divisions are headed for a merger down the road.

Last season a local dealer told me that AC was going to come out with a new chassis, and Yamaha would take over, or share, the rights to the Pro Cross chassis. He seemed pretty certain about that scenario. He was at least partly right because AC did come out with the Alpha One, albeit in limited production. Maybe next year the Pro Cross will be gone from the entire AC line. If Yamaha gets the rights to the Pro Cross chassis, and developes a "pure" Yamaha set up (including ECU) with Yamaha fit and finish, I will be standing in line at the dealership to put down my money, and Yamaha will be back in the game.

 

[cannondale27]

I really have to wonder how much better Yamaha can do to build a better handling chassis than Procross. Working on my viper there are quite a few areas where I could see Yamaha Tech improve various parts to reduce weight and add strength like using the aluminum casting process they have to unify the lower A-arm frame and front engine cradle into one unit. The Procross front suspension still remains the best in the buisness, bar none, though the G4 Doo comes close now. The other great unknown is how long does Textron want to hang on the the Arctic Cat division since they already pulled/rebranded everything else BUT the sleds. I personally think that the Cat/Yamaha sled divisions are headed for a merger down the road.

Axis has a better front end than Doo G4 in my opinion. But yes Cat front is amazing.

 

[whitedust1]

Last season a local dealer told me that AC was going to come out with a new chassis, and Yamaha would take over, or share, the rights to the Pro Cross chassis. He seemed pretty certain about that scenario. He was at least partly right because AC did come out with the Alpha One, albeit in limited production. Maybe next year the Pro Cross will be gone from the entire AC line. If Yamaha gets the rights to the Pro Cross chassis, and developes a "pure" Yamaha set up (including ECU) with Yamaha fit and finish, I will be standing in line at the dealership to put down my money, and Yamaha will be back in the game.

Imo dealers don’t know nuttin at this point other than inventory reduction program from Yamaha. Yamaha traditionally is very tight lipped about R&D. Lots of low hanging fruit for Yamaha especially for a EPS Apex replacement in the NA 150 to 160 hp 4s segment. Yamaha would just need to have an early release with a factory demo tour and the faithful would buy every one built. The 2s market would be a harder road to hoe since so much competition in that market with very satisfied users. Yammy needs to stick to what they do well then branch out to other models if they see more low hanging fruit. In any event we will all know what is next in March 2019 and if anything at all is in the development pipeline. Highly unlikely a Yamaha 2s will be released for 2020 product line just not how Yammie does things.

 

[biffdotorg]

He was at least partly right because AC did come out with the Alpha One, albeit in limited production.

Correct me if I am wrong, but Alpha one was around as a third party skid manufacturer prior to being used at AC right? My mountain buddies were telling me the single rail design in that particular skid is not new, but never offered by one of the major MFG's as stock equipment. I was not able to find it on the web, but I am pretty certain this is not AC's design, but rather acquisition.

Someone please prove or disprove this theory.

 

[Joe ltx-le]

are we really still comparing these sleds to the fit and finish of a all Yamaha sled.
Those days are over. we now have a great handling chasis with poor quality fit. im on my third yamacat and adjusted very well

 

[Mototown]

Again its a nice concept but Cat has made it clear that on the two stroke side they are competitors. Fourstroke side buddies. I would think that seeing as how Yamaha has not made a two stroke in well forever and seeing as they have not made a 600 or an 800 big bore, all they have for tech is three cylinder small bore!

What you are wishing for is a new partner ship like the fourstoke one that now includes two strokes. What you want is Cat to shut down production its own two stokes that sell (lay off their designers and production line) and let Yamaha build them instead? Somehow I don't think that is going to work out! You would be better off wishing for Yamaha to work with Cat in a new agreement to let them put their name on a line of two strokes! That would then be a total partnership between the three, at this time they have a fourstoke partnership only.

Two answer your question I think a two stoke Cat will and does sell just fine, I think Cat is further along on two stoke tech then Yamaha is. We like to think that Yamaha is the best and Cat is junk but Yamaha is now Cat. They are one and the same, dicing Cat is dicing Yamaha! The Yamaha identity is now a motor at best, a small thing to hang on to. Cat/Textron will decide what Yamaha can sell or what they will buy from them! I don't see Yamaha two strokes in that future. At best all I see is Yamaha tech's helping Cat with their two stokes in a new two stroke agreement, till that agreement they are competitors!

 

[Mototown]

If u think making engines sence 2014 surpasses yamahas technology on building motors from the 60 s .... yes u are correct lol

 

[Mototown]

https://global.yamaha-motor.com/business/outboards/products/2st/200-150/
Just so u realize they are still making 2 strokes , and making more than cat is ...

 

[Wannaviper]

Correct me if I am wrong, but Alpha one was around as a third party skid manufacturer prior to being used at AC right? My mountain buddies were telling me the single rail design in that particular skid is not new, but never offered by one of the major MFG's as stock equipment. I was not able to find it on the web, but I am pretty certain this is not AC's design, but rather acquisition.

Someone please prove or disprove this theory.

I don't know all the history, but this is what was reported by Snowmobile.com:

"In 2013, Andy Beavis cut up a twin rail Pro Mountain rear suspension, mated the two rails to a single rectangular aluminum rail and began coloring outside the lines – challenging every engineering question all the naysayers would throw at Arctic Cat. The concept worked and took root. Just so you know, a 2013 M8000 is still in use at Cat and is functioning with this earliest of early prototype single beam rear suspensions; it has never failed."

Maybe someone developed a single rail prior to the Alpha One, but AC is definitely the first major manufacturer to design and build a chassis around it. The question I have is whether some modification of the single rail would make sense for a trail sled, or whether it is strictly an off-trail mountain application.

I only brought it up because I am desperately hoping that Yamaha will unveil a new sled next March that is manufactured by Yamaha. If it is a reworked Pro Cross chassis, I will buy one in a heartbeat, even though I don't need another sled! If it is all new from the ground up, all the better, as long as it is an improvement over the Pro Cross.

 

[Turtle]

UGH! If we end up with a cat chassis and a cat 2-stroke engine with Yamaha stickers - what's the point of buying the Yamaha? Just because of the color? I'd love to see a new Yamaha 2-stroke in a competitive chassis of their own. But I think we all know that's extremely unlikely to happen. It may have been a poor decision on Yamaha's part to go strictly all 4-stroke, and backing off on the EPA regulations didn't really help. But it was also a poor decision on their part to have 3 unique chassis for 3 engines, each with their own unique suspension (Phazer, Nytro and Apex/Vector). The effort and cost to maintain and improve those is mind boggling. Yamaha still moves too slowly as a corporation, and I've been waiting too many years. Unfortunately my confidence gets weaker every year I continue to wait. Unfortunately my patience is only going to last about 4-5 more months. It will be at that time that I'll be deciding to stay or not. Until then, I'll try my best to keep the fire going.