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2021 Release?

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20/80 said:
I'm glad your enjoying your Winder but you know your post should be sent to Craig Kennedy, you should be thanking him, its the company he is working for that has given you that ride, not Yamaha, just like the new mountain max 800, the venom, his company built them, not Yamaha, Dodge Ram truck has a Cummins engine in it, its still a Dodge Ram truck, its not called a Cummins, but if Cummins spent millions in advertising and put their stickers on all over the truck than I guess yes it would be a Cummins Truck then.
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That is one way of looking at it, but I have to believe that Yamaha had quite a bit to do with the development of the Winder. There are some small things, like the plastics had a major design change that made getting to the engine a lot easier. It also seemed to greatly improve the fit and finish, at least IMO. I don't know it to be so, but I suspect that Yamaha was involved in those design changes. It is also my understanding that the Winder uses a different ECU than the Viper that was chosen by Cat; again, I don't know it to be true, but I am told that the ECU was Yamaha's choice, not Cat's. Then there are some other things that do make the sled uniquely Yamaha. I would just as soon forget the Tuner skis, but they are strictly Yamaha, and despite their faults, if you put a pair of Snow Trackers on them, they are a pretty decent ski. There is also the Yamaha clutching that is unique to Yamaha. I know some of the guys on here complain about clutches and blowing belts, and but it seems to be the ones who tuned their sleds. Personally, I now have 5,000 miles and two years on a stock Winder with the original belt and no clutching issues.

I think it may be a little like Chevrolet and GMC. I have bought 5 straight GMC trucks over the years. I have friends that have Chevys and wouldn't think of buying GMC. They have a lot in common; a lot of the tech is shared, but there is enough of a difference for people like me to stay brand loyal. So for me, right or wrong, the way I look at it there is enough Yamaha in my Winder for me to say I am riding a Yamaha.
 

20/80 said:
I'm glad your enjoying your Winder but you know your post should be sent to Craig Kennedy, you should be thanking him, its the company he is working for that has given you that ride, not Yamaha, just like the new mountain max 800, the venom, his company built them, not Yamaha, Dodge Ram truck has a Cummins engine in it, its still a Dodge Ram truck, its not called a Cummins, but if Cummins spent millions in advertising and put their stickers on all over the truck than I guess yes it would be a Cummins Truck then.
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On the other hand a Mercedes pickup is not called a Toyota... Or the VW taro a Toyota.. or the chevrolet a daewood..

A company does what a company can to pleas customers.. I say yamaha has done that! Instead of closing shop they found another way forward were we get great sleds
 
Wannaviper said:
That is one way of looking at it, but I have to believe that Yamaha had quite a bit to do with the development of the Winder. There are some small things, like the plastics had a major design change that made getting to the engine a lot easier. It also seemed to greatly improve the fit and finish, at least IMO. I don't know it to be so, but I suspect that Yamaha was involved in those design changes. It is also my understanding that the Winder uses a different ECU than the Viper that was chosen by Cat; again, I don't know it to be true, but I am told that the ECU was Yamaha's choice, not Cat's. Then there are some other things that do make the sled uniquely Yamaha. I would just as soon forget the Tuner skis, but they are strictly Yamaha, and despite their faults, if you put a pair of Snow Trackers on them, they are a pretty decent ski. There is also the Yamaha clutching that is unique to Yamaha. I know some of the guys on here complain about clutches and blowing belts, and but it seems to be the ones who tuned their sleds. Personally, I now have 5,000 miles and two years on a stock Winder with the original belt and no clutching issues.

I think it may be a little like Chevrolet and GMC. I have bought 5 straight GMC trucks over the years. I have friends that have Chevys and wouldn't think of buying GMC. They have a lot in common; a lot of the tech is shared, but there is enough of a difference for people like me to stay brand loyal. So for me, right or wrong, the way I look at it there is enough Yamaha in my Winder for me to say I am riding a Yamaha.
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I kind of like the GM's truck to, Duramax is a great engine, lol, they both share that engine.
 
It would be extremely odd to me if I seen a Chevy truck labeled as a Duramax pickup truck ,with Duramax stickers all over it. Or a Cummins pickup that is clearly a Dodge.. Or a super duty.......oh nevermind, Ford makes their own engine. Lol
 
Deeppow16 said:
I have said this many times before but in my eyes this "partnership" is completely one sided. Cat runs the show and always has been. I have zero problems with 2 companies working together IF they both contribute to the cause which in this case they are not. I'm sorry but Yamaha hasn't done a damn thing in the partnership except supply a motor to use which is a small part of what makes a machine. For all the guys that say Yamaha is the reason for slightly better quality need to stop and think for a minute. Maybe textron is the reason for some of those changes? They have the money to help cat fine tune some things but its still far from prefect. Yamaha is in the passenger seat or more like the back seat of this deal. They are just along for the ride and whatever they get they get. They are lucky they get a good platform to use. Yamaha has no say in the partnership otherwise we would have seen some different more significant changes by now. I'm going to leave it at that. I'm done with this thread
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This guy gets it! I love Yamaha and currently have 3. 15 Viper, 18 SW LTX LE, and 18 SW MTX LE 162. Awesome sleds...no surprises there. Prior to that I had two Apexes....2006 and 2011. Loved those as well. Ok, got the love fest out of the way....

Can't believe some guys are defending Yamaha saying they did a "good" job with this 2021 roll out. Seriously? With what? We know there won't be a true Yamaha sled. Yamaha changed the ski....after how many years???? Because they ran out of stock? Give me a break. I ride the mountains (and UP) and was excited to see the MTN Max. Does anyone really believe they had a hand in this? No. This sled has already been on the market. So they remapped the motor which isn't their motor anyway. I thought Yamaha was a MOTOR company. Well--where are they????? Yes, I realize the apex is a great motor and so is the 998.....but other companies are actually advancing. Where does that leave us?

By the way, I'm also cranky today because it's raining and the snow is gone. Love this site and all the great people who contribute!
 
Maybe we need a Scotty Kilmer like you tube longtime sled mechanic to wave his arms with dark glasses on and say they are all money pits!! LOL!
 
Wannaviper said:
I spent this weekend in Quebec, and like you, I saw a lot of Yamahas, mostly Sidewinders, and I saw more SRX's in two days there than I have seen all season here in Maine. Given the fact that they are competing with the Canadian manufactured Ski Doos, for a lot less money, I was really surprised to see them.
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The SRX was made for Quebec no other brand compares
 
You know what would make me feel better along with maybe a lot of other Yamaha loyalists, is if they could prove to us that there is one thing on this new 400 single and one thing on the M Max engine that Yamaha came up with and had insisted that it be put on their share of the produced engines. Then they and us could call it our engine version. I think that is all it would take to get our identity and pride in Yamaha back!
 
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