3 gallons or less in your tank!!

[max rolph]

i dont know where the low speed cruise kicks in for RPM, i dont think it changed the idle as we hoped im still at `13.7-14.0 i havent heard back from TD in a week, sent logs and video's but nothing back. im gonna assume that the idle circuit is still factory setting in the ecu and was not touched in flash and with the cams and or header and exhaust and intake.... its prob making it run leaner. tonight when home and sled is warm im going to restrict the exhaust a bit... just to see if that richens it up..... if it does then thats the answer, the 3" SQ free flows alot more than stock exhaust.

 

[max rolph]

OK soo heres what is happening now.... when guage... shows 1/2 tank if im coming dwn a hill or stopping hard or even after a fast acceleration and let off throttle the sled shuts off and coasts to a stop... as sled coasted to a stop, and engine is being turned by the driveline.... its still generating electrical current cuz head light stays lit till i almost come to complete stop. ...As i was coasting to a stop i even tryed hiting the kill switch on and off to see if it would catch and start up again... nothing. once it stops i just hit the start button and it starts right back up again.

is there a safety fuel shut off on these sleds?? sled runns fine while im on the throttle but as soon as im off and slowing dwn or coming dwn steep hill or slowing to a stop it shuts fuel or ignition off.... once it dies i can hit throttle,hit kill on/ off but wont catch untill i stop and re start with starter.

 

[KnappAttack]

Couple things come to mind. So its obvious then that its running out of fuel in the slipper "surge" tank. There is a silicone type valve in the bottom of the slipper I think, I believe it allows fuel in but not out. I wonder if it is leaking fuel out of it, or is your return on top of the inlet line and just spraying outside of the tank negating the return to the slipper? Check that one way valve for sure to see if it will hold fuel in and not let it out.

I've used the long steel return elbows like Hurricane provides in their kit to get past the inlet with certainty to make sure all the return gets back into the slipper, I make sure to clear the inlet with the return elbow and it in turn extends past the inlet pipe as not to ricochet fuel outside the slipper by hitting on top of it.

 

[max rolph]

OMFG KNAPP.... my buddy and i were out just now with full tank, rode aprox 100 klm before it started to do it.... i went down this level road and then braked hard to turn on trail and it died... i watch my AFR jump to 18 and engine shut off. my gauge showed 2/3 tank, started right up again.... soo i know that the engine must have a sensor some where that when fuel pressure drops to a certain level, the engine shuts dwn.. or afr lean it shuts dwn. then you crank engine and it resets ecu and fires right back up.

the reason for the OMFG is we were just in the Bar having a beer discussing the logical reason its doing this...and we both came up with the basket must be draining from those diaphragms or my return line is not filling basket!!!... DAMB i thought that was it!!!

so i made it home and kept getting worse as i made my way home, if i braked or coasted dwn hill it shut off, got home and took pump out and the basket was holding fuel!!! NOT LEAKING but the return line is right above the the T soo yes its prob spraying outside the basket. and the basket prob empties out the top when going dwn hill or decelerating or there is air being sucked in from the crows feet pick ups.

Soo heres my thoughts, the fuel pump lid smart valve where the crows feet T into pressure line uses the fuel pumps fuel pressure to draw fuel from those crows feet pickups... if the basket is empty due to hard braking, then there is no fuel going through the smart valve to suck from the crows feet. or the lid smart valve is fkd and cat doesnt sell just the lid.

Now, i went on the Precision EFI sight and looked at there solution to the fuel starvation issue... had to watch their install video to get a good look at the underside of the cover, their billet cover has the fuel pump pressure line going straight out and to the engine with no smart valve in the cover on the pressure side drawing from crows feet, ... BUT ON THE RETURN line they do sort of!!! so as the fuel is returning to the tank from the regulator,,,, on the underside of the pump cover, they "T" the lines for the crows feet into that return and it sucks fuel from crows feet as the fuel is being returned to fill the basket !! this makes more sense than introducing air into the pressure line if the crows feet are not submerged in fuel.

i cant be the only one that is having this issue unless my cover smart valve has just screwed up... this only started after i had to take pump out because wire poped off pump. looks like i gotta spend some more money with PEFI

 

[max rolph]

when i did the return line to the top of basket, the elbow is right above the crows feet pick up T and probably spews the gas into tank more than in basket, But on the elbow where the fuel use to return to tank, i put a hose leading all the way to the handle bar riser as a vent, it made no differents. thanks for the suggestion... im hoping someone else has the answer, this all just started out of the blue.... there must be a sensor that detects when fuel pressure drops suddenly as the engine completely shuts dwn... then all i have to do is hit starter and it fires right back up. i can ride agresive as i want when tank is full... once i get dwn a few gallons is when it shuts off only when i let off off hard acceleration or braking. i rushed home thinking i had solution as we came up with same answer as KNAPP, but the surge basket held fuel and wasnt draining out threw those diaphragms, it has to be the Cover smart valve, cuz even if ididnt do the return line to the basket and return was at stock location, would a stock sled not acted like this? for some reason fuel pressure is lost causing engine to shut off due to lean

 

[1nc 2000]

Unplug fuel pump heavy duty harness and try on factory harness to fuel pump. Also make sure battery connections are tight.

 

[SDFTCAT]

Hi all! I learned a lot from this forum for my 17 Tcat. I was experiencing the fuel starvation ...TD bundle tunes 250-300 hp after upgrading fuel pump to the GSS342 last year.. I use Race Gas Concentrate as octane booster with 93 octane gas. Pumps were noisy and hot when happened. Let cool and could continue ride until pump heated up. Tried 3 different pumps and weighted down the Y fuel pickups with nuts and moved return line to top of fuel pump housing also. (A side note too:if using rubber hose inside tank to connect fuel pump to head unit, need to use submersible fuel line. I used regular fuel injection line and when changing the pumps it was sticky and tacky...not designed to be in gas. So got a piece of submersible fuel line.) Even did adjustable pressure regulator. Installed heavy duty relay for fuel pump directly to battery with factory fuel pump power wire as control wire to relay. Rode with fuel pressure test gauge T'd into supply line. When acted up pressure dropped to 15 or 20 psi.

Sooo, after watching the PEFI video several times saw that they draw the fuel from the Y pickups with the return line, I ordered and installed the PEFI pump unit for this season with an inline Hyperfuel fuel filter just before the injector fuel rail, thanks to Turboflash's post on this forum. Thought my troubles were over. Well it acted up again. Got it home, took pump unit out and noticed the coragated tube looked like it was kinked slightly do to pump orientation and Oetiker clamp on coragated tube between pump and fuel head was not clamped tight enough allowing some leakage. Removed clamp and installed new. I also had used a regular fuel injection clamp on the pickup tube to return line T. Ditched that clamp and used an Oetiker clamp on it as well. All my fuel line clamps are now Oetiker. Double check all fuel line clamps!!

While doing this, I was thinking that the only thing I didn't change when all this was happening was the filter socks.I had cleaned them with carb cleaner once.( Maybe this ruined the one on the pump?) Since the filter sock on the pump is only available buy buying a complete oem pump assembly, i tried to find one from Walbro... but they don't list the dimensions.Looked at pictures of many. So i looked up Holley Hydramat and found that they have a 3" by 8" part # 16-125 which is slightly larger than the oem and will fit on our fuel pump... universal 6 position clocking pin holes.I clipped off an edge of the mounting plastic for filter to fit on pump inlet , but may not have needed to do that. When I reinstalled pump, i rotated the pump slightly to make damn sure the coragated tube has a nice S bend...no kinks and the Hydramat filter sock is oriented to the right side of the surge tank directly under the return line.And i changed the filter socks on the Y pickup, too. Had to use aftermarket SPI filter socks on it. Started sled up on lift and immediately saw better higher fuel pressure on fuel pressure tester gauge at idle and quick revup . Rode sled and haven't had a problem in the 800 miles I've ridden this season so far.

That's my experience.

I cut open the filters on end of the Y pickup. They are just a plastic mesh screen inside of of a plastic mesh housing. When i cut open the filter sock on pump, the filter media looked like a version of the oil absorbent Pig Mat with a plastic mesh screen also.

 

[max rolph]

thanks sdft cat, you are correct thats what i notices with PEFI fuel return draws the fuel from crows feet. did yours act like mine where when you get lower on fuel and are coming to stop the engine shuts off completely just like fuel pump is turned off then you just have to hit starter and it starts right back up....

last night i changed pump from quantum to Walbro with new filter sock on it and put new corrugated line on and made sure it wasnt kinked, i also changed elbow for return line into housing to the metal one that has a nipple on bottom and put 3' of hose on it to direct return fuel right into basket.

what mine seams like it is doing is ,,, when i brake or coast to a stop, the pump is shutting off or because of the fuel pressure dropping if the basket sloshes empty for a moment when fuel is pushed to front of tank, the engine sees pressure drop on rail or AFR going lean for a sec and the engine cuts off.... then i have to reinitialize the start up procedure .... just like when you first turn key and the pump builds pressure and then shuts off till you crank it over.

is there a sensor on the rail that tells ecu to shut pump off?? what makes pump turn off when pressure is built up on first power up before starting?

 

[sideshowBob]

What if you tried bypassing the sleds control of fuel pump and wired it directly to a keyed power source so the pump would run steady once you turned ignition switch on. The tail light wiring harness is right by the pump and you could use it to trigger the relay.
You could use this to trouble shoot possible issue of fuel pump being cutout.

 

[max rolph]

thanks side show i was thinking that last night, is the tail light the wire that goes dwn side of tank? my question is why is this just all of a sudden happening?, why only when tank gets lower on fuel? what shuts the pump off? obviously the ecu but whats triggering it?

 

[1nc 2000]

When your engine stalls the primary clutch opens and engine quits spinning. Crank sensor does not get signal of engine spinning and computer shuts off pump.
Does your sled pop and backfire before it stalls?
Usually thats a sign of a lean fuel condition.
Sounds to me like you have an electrical problem.
Battery voltage? Battery cables tight?
Wire rub below fuse box? I had put a strip of soft velcro below fuse box to prevent wire rub thru.

 

[sideshowBob]

thanks side show i was thinking that last night, is the tail light the wire that goes dwn side of tank? my question is why is this just all of a sudden happening?, why only when tank gets lower on fuel? what shuts the pump off? obviously the ecu but whats triggering it?

The tail light wiring is on left side of tank. Three wires, black ground, red/blue tail light , blue/yellow brake light.
The red/blue wire has constant power once the ignition is selected on even when the engine is not running.

 

[max rolph]

Thnks INC, ive checked every wire harnes and no rubs anywhere as i put 3m under fuse box, soo when im braking or coming to a stop or letting off throttle, the engine sometimes pops a little but my afr guage goes to 16-18 and then engine shuts off ... but because in still moving when engine shuts down but the clutch is still engaged turning the engine over untill almost stopped and then the head light goes out... its not killing power to anything like the kill switch was hit,,,, cuz when you do that everything goes off.... its just like when you run outta fuel and coast to a stop like in a standard car and you havent pushed clutch in. then once i stop.. i hit the starter and it fires up like nothing happened..... but only when tank gets to 3 -4 gallons. and its instantly when i accelerate hard then let off. its not throttle switch as ive tested it disconnected.. still does it... it 100% fuel shutting off.

 

[max rolph]

Hi all! I learned a lot from this forum for my 17 Tcat. I was experiencing the fuel starvation ...TD bundle tunes 250-300 hp after upgrading fuel pump to the GSS342 last year.. I use Race Gas Concentrate as octane booster with 93 octane gas. Pumps were noisy and hot when happened. Let cool and could continue ride until pump heated up. Tried 3 different pumps and weighted down the Y fuel pickups with nuts and moved return line to top of fuel pump housing also. (A side note too:if using rubber hose inside tank to connect fuel pump to head unit, need to use submersible fuel line. I used regular fuel injection line and when changing the pumps it was sticky and tacky...not designed to be in gas. So got a piece of submersible fuel line.) Even did adjustable pressure regulator. Installed heavy duty relay for fuel pump directly to battery with factory fuel pump power wire as control wire to relay. Rode with fuel pressure test gauge T'd into supply line. When acted up pressure dropped to 15 or 20 psi.

Sooo, after watching the PEFI video several times saw that they draw the fuel from the Y pickups with the return line, I ordered and installed the PEFI pump unit for this season with an inline Hyperfuel fuel filter just before the injector fuel rail, thanks to Turboflash's post on this forum. Thought my troubles were over. Well it acted up again. Got it home, took pump unit out and noticed the coragated tube looked like it was kinked slightly do to pump orientation and Oetiker clamp on coragated tube between pump and fuel head was not clamped tight enough allowing some leakage. Removed clamp and installed new. I also had used a regular fuel injection clamp on the pickup tube to return line T. Ditched that clamp and used an Oetiker clamp on it as well. All my fuel line clamps are now Oetiker. Double check all fuel line clamps!!

While doing this, I was thinking that the only thing I didn't change when all this was happening was the filter socks.I had cleaned them with carb cleaner once.( Maybe this ruined the one on the pump?) Since the filter sock on the pump is only available buy buying a complete oem pump assembly, i tried to find one from Walbro... but they don't list the dimensions.Looked at pictures of many. So i looked up Holley Hydramat and found that they have a 3" by 8" part # 16-125 which is slightly larger than the oem and will fit on our fuel pump... universal 6 position clocking pin holes.I clipped off an edge of the mounting plastic for filter to fit on pump inlet , but may not have needed to do that. When I reinstalled pump, i rotated the pump slightly to make damn sure the coragated tube has a nice S bend...no kinks and the Hydramat filter sock is oriented to the right side of the surge tank directly under the return line.And i changed the filter socks on the Y pickup, too. Had to use aftermarket SPI filter socks on it. Started sled up on lift and immediately saw better higher fuel pressure on fuel pressure tester gauge at idle and quick revup . Rode sled and haven't had a problem in the 800 miles I've ridden this season so far.

That's my experience.

I cut open the filters on end of the Y pickup. They are just a plastic mesh screen inside of of a plastic mesh housing. When i cut open the filter sock on pump, the filter media looked like a version of the oil absorbent Pig Mat with a plastic mesh screen also.

so i just wrote a mortgage for that Holley mat ...WTF but got the centre pic up so it can be folded up both side of pump !!! and i got the Quantum crows feet socks used in various sleds HFP-S20-3

 

[SDFTCAT]

No. i did not experience sled actually shutting off.. It stayed running. I was able to limp it back to truck riding slowly and stopping a few times to let pump cool. When tank was full it ran great but then about 40 miles into a ride and lower fuel in tank and pump would get hot and very noisy could hear a LOUD whine from pump with seat on,couldn't ride above 25 mph. Also note, it happened on any tune setting. The SPI Y filter pickup i put on is part # SM-07367 from several ebay vendors, same size as oem. I put 2 nuts ( think they are 5/8) on tube at each Y filter sock ( removed filter sock from tube, put nuts on tube and put filters back onto tube with new Oetiker clamps) on end of Y pickup to weight them down during fuel sloshing, Added a zip tie to prevent the nuts from moving up on the tube.

Yeah, i was not happy spending the $160 for the Hydramat. Expensive filter!

When putting pump assembly back into tank, i removed gauge sending unit from tank to look into hole to verify Y pickups sitting properly ( flat) on bottom of tank. On one of my reinstalls the Y pickup was not sitting properly. Also looked in side tank with a boroscope ( tank empty ) to make sure pickup tube wasn't pinched by the surge tank.

Max, hope you get yours figured out!