Apex clutch on Sidewinder

[Byam]

Bringing this back up. Anyone running a STOCK tune Sidewinder with an RX-1/Apex clutch? If so what was your weight set up? Daltons? G-Force? Stock weights?
I am putting an RX-1 clutch on my Sidewinder and am going stock tune for a few hundred miles. I was going to run some G-Force magnetic weights, because I have them, and was going to just add @ 3 grams per weight for a total of 73 grams per weight.
Looking back through my notes on these weights it seems as though it will not be enough. The profile on the G-Force weight is a little more aggressive.

Hi M stain. This was my recipe whit stock tune back in 2018 (SW oem clutch).
- I have removed 2 gr from this back hump (70,6gr total weight) i tried to move rivets at first …..
-primary roller 15mm
-yellow-white-yellow+2 shims
-xs825
-offset @58,5mm

secondary spring pocket cut down 0.070
hi-torque fiber rollers
cam #35 straight
yellow oem 6/1

 

[1nc 2000]

Getting rid of the stock sidewinder primary was a huge improvement for my sled.
Same clutch set ups others were running wouldn't work for me.
Kept eating rollers in the primary like candy.
Belt issues if I got aggressive.
Setting proper belt offset helped but still was all over the place with how the clutching worked.
Going back to the fx nytro primary for me was the turning point for all these belt issues.
Have to report over 3 years have gone by and belt issues are gone.

Back in the first year the Sidewinder came out the primary clutches were spinning on the stub shaft with the torque method used for many years with no issues.
While being torqued to the higher spec it felt like the clutch was just being stretched.
Also when removing the sidewinder primary it was rolling in a log on the fishing line. No pop coming off.
All due to the piece of junk primary.
All the money and time I spent to get this sorted out the sled could have some top of the line clutches on it.
Don't forget the input shaft and offset issues also.
My sidewinder primary still sits on the shelf collecting dust. I offered it up to Jarret to take back to Yamaha for inspection and testing but he declined to answer my messages.
I wouldn't spend a dime replacing anything in the stock sidewinder clutch.

 

[KnappAttack]

Getting rid of the stock sidewinder primary was a huge improvement for my sled.
Same clutch set ups others were running wouldn't work for me.
Kept eating rollers in the primary like candy.
Belt issues if I got aggressive.
Setting proper belt offset helped but still was all over the place with how the clutching worked.
Going back to the fx nytro primary for me was the turning point for all these belt issues.
Have to report over 3 years have gone by and belt issues are gone.

Back in the first year the Sidewinder came out the primary clutches were spinning on the stub shaft with the torque method used for many years with no issues.
While being torqued to the higher spec it felt like the clutch was just being stretched.
Also when removing the sidewinder primary it was rolling in a log on the fishing line. No pop coming off.
All due to the piece of junk primary.
All the money and time I spent to get this sorted out the sled could have some top of the line clutches on it.
Don't forget the input shaft and offset issues also.
My sidewinder primary still sits on the shelf collecting dust. I offered it up to Jarret to take back to Yamaha for inspection and testing but he declined to answer my messages.
I wouldn't spend a dime replacing anything in the stock sidewinder clutch.

What's really weird is there are a few sleds that work fine with the Winder primary and don't eat rollers or belts, but I too feel I wasted time and energy with my Winder primary stubbornly. All was fixed with the RX-1 primary.

I now have a TAPP on, and we'll see how that does. So far I like it, but not impressed with having to replace the rollers on it with only 1000 miles on it, they were worn IMO beyond where they should have been. Its easy to see the axles the roller bushings ride on look "rough" and can wear the bushings under maginifation. TAPP doesn't rattle at idle, but does still rattle some in the midrange RPMs when riding it. I think its getting sloppier and the o-rings behind the buttons are getting hard with time and making it louder too. Its not silent, but some new ones I have installed are truly silent, but them some are not. Some TAPPS tend to "stick" more than others when new too, even engage at different rates and act differently. I still like the old RX-1 primary for consistency and putting the power down, roller & belt life.

 

[earthling]

Is the RX-1 also quiet compared to the stock winder primary?

 

[1nc 2000]

Is the RX-1 also quiet compared to the stock winder primary?

No

 

[KnappAttack]

Is the RX-1 also quiet compared to the stock winder primary?

No, actually its louder, but it sure doesn't hamper its performance. The rattle comes from the loose tolerance on the buttons, and thats also why it slides and moves nice and freely compared to the Winder POS primary.

 

[darv]

No, actually its louder, but it sure doesn't hamper its performance. The rattle comes from the loose tolerance on the buttons, and thats also why it slides and moves nice and freely compared to the Winder POS primary.

if you didn't know yamaha makes spacers for behind the sliders for adjust if needed i can see if i can find part #

 

[KnappAttack]

if you didn't know yamaha makes spacers for behind the sliders for adjust if needed i can see if i can find part #

Yes I know that, but leaving them loose makes for a better performing and more efficient clutch. As long as they don’t get too loose.

 

[number1kyster]

What's really weird is there are a few sleds that work fine with the Winder primary and don't eat rollers or belts, but I too feel I wasted time and energy with my Winder primary stubbornly. All was fixed with the RX-1 primary.

I'm in that group. 4,800 miles, 3,500 miles running 16+lbs. Original rollers.

I'm on my 3rd belt. Stock belt lasted 950 miles. My first XS belt lasted 3,400 miles. It grenaded riding in 45 degree weather last April.

I did just notice that one of my towers is now out of round from the XS blowing. I'll have to find an old Apex clutch or maybe even a PB80.

I have a 2014 Vector sitting in the garage. I'm tempted to just switch them out.

 

[Thunder Products]

Is that with the 8jp belt?
What about a xs825 belt?

8JP belt

 

[Thunder Products]

The previous style primary needs more weight due to the roller and weight location compared to the Sidewinder clutch.

Yamaha moved the roller and weight location to give the clutch more belt squeeze on the Sidewinders. This is why the Vipers still came with the previous style clutches instead of Yamaha changing all models to the new clutch.

The Sidewinder clutch was made to lighten the turbo 4 stroke, because everyone was worried about the weight, Yamaha needed to take weight away anywhere they could (lighter suspension bolts, lighter components all over including the primary clutch....which they made it weaker).

On all the 5 turbo sleds we have and changed over to the previous style clutch, to get the same results RPM and power wise, we had to add 5 grams (2.5 in the middle and 2.5 in the tip) for us to keep rpms from going too high with the same belt and tune setup originally setup with the Sidewinder clutch.

 

[justinator]

I had a viper primary on my winder last winter. It needed about 3-3.5grams more weight than the factory sidewinder primary using dalton weights. My friend could swap between a viper primary and his factory sidewinder clutch and didnt require any weight change at all. Not sure why some dont require a change but theres been a fair amount that have commented on some of these posts that required no changes.

 

[sideshowBob]

I am just wrapping up my second full season using an Apex clutch on my 2019 tuned SW.
I have the sled in my shop and am disassembling the sled to do major maintenance to be ready for the next 4-5 seasons.
I have not had the Apex clutch off the sled since I installed it and I was very pleasantly surprised how easily it popped right off as it should...unlike the battle I used to have when pulling the SW clutch.
I have the original SW clutch stored in my spare parts but I will only ever use it again in an emergency.

 

[Upstater57]

Are you really Olav Aaen ?

Olav is a great/smart guy. I used to attend his seminars back in the day. Learned a lot from him. My 1979 SRX has his porting and lake racer pipes still installed.

 

[WindTime]

So if i understand any clutch of an apex,vector,phazer,nytor will work?. I can get an empty 07 phazer primary for a reasonable price and throw my dalton stuff in