Apex lovers?? Is this the end??

[vodoo child]

So they replace the Apex with a new one at 18k$ next year, you all complain it costs too much and everyone just keeps their old ones? Theyll never please everyone. ....... I love my Apex and would have loved to buy a viper for the newer better chassis, but the power just wasent there, short of buying a Turbo and bringing in a whole new set of possible issues.

I for one am happy to see Blue and Green working together, and truley believe if we can get them 100% working together they can make one hell of a machine for ALL of us. Cat has always had leading chassis designs and development, but lacked in quality and finish. Yamaha has always had awesome engines but lacked in good working chassis for anything but smooth roads and lakes...face it; its true.

If we could get a cat chassis GOOD and a yamaha powertrain GOOD and an overall machine up to our known and loved Yami specs and quality we ALL win. I feel the further the two companies intermingle and work together it would be THE best machine on the snow.

This is just what I needed to persuade me from my Apex, a mill with some balls that will pull harder than the Apex. Even the 1049 ran great loads of power down low fun from corner to corner but ran out of steam because its lacking the power over its smaller but bigger brother. Will I get rid of my Apex?...not a chance itll fit real nice next to my SRX. I feel all the guys knocking its not the 4 holer, how many of you have ridin this new machine to compare engines? Thats right only a select few have tried it out, so blindly saying this is not a replacement for the apex engine is dumb. I bet this thing rips the 4 holer apart in everything.

As for the handling issues, if you dont have it setup right of course its going to suck to ride. Every other post I see here is related to someone getting their Apex to handle, or it rides like crap but they love the engine so they keep it....... 99% of the buyers out there buy the sled and go ride it and wonder why it doesnt work like they said.....

Yam+Cat= good things to come

Good points TopGunn, As far as the prices go. Being a CNC machinist by trade I live by the mantra, ""You get what you pay for""! By all accounts the Sidewinder is and will be one hell of a sled, No deigning that. My issue is this, If the Sidewinder is not a stop gap and is the premier flagship sled for Yamaha from here on out, and there's no other built in Japan hyper sled coming in the future! Well, in my line of work that is not only sad but embarrassing for Yamaha! IMO it is equivalent of Chevy asking Ford to build the Corvette !!! OK end of rant, Flame away !!!

 

[kinger]

What makes the Apex great for me is the modability to creat a sled that works so well in so many situations. Example I turned mine into a ditch pickle that is easy to stand up, fly through moguls, etc. others turn them into mountain sleds that work well for them. Others keep them more stock and cruise thousands of miles. It's so versatile. Mine is highly modified and I never pop the hood once the snow flies. It's amazing I have had modified sleds before and they stunk with unreliability and ruined trips. Other sleds are fairly one dimensional focusing on light weight dry weights because that sells sleds. The motors in the 800 class are all regarded as limited when you get to 4000-8000 miles. You don't see those sleds running 15,000-25,000 miles. The apex chassis has to be heavy to support that type of mileage the motor is capable of. I just love how adaptable the apex is. You can make it anything you want other than a lightweight off trail tree flicker. If you want that then a 2 smoke will be fine because you can't log 1000's of miles going off trail that much. If people would stop reading magazines and just ride a apex that had doo or poo stickers all over I bet 90% of riders would say it was awesome!


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[cobrajet ltx dx]

Let's be real Guy's. The apex motor is not the problem the chassis is.You can't
Get that chassis to do what a modem pro cross can do no matter how much money you spend.
A 250 + day riding all conditions on a apex chassis, you need a wheelchair once your done.
A 250+ day on a modern pro cross chassis riding all conditions is like you never ridden those miles.
If I only rode lakes, and wide open railroad beds all day I would fall asleep.

 

[steiner]

Ahh....The bravo is gone and has been for awhile. Lol

LOL Bravo/ VK540 all the same to me. I will admit I don't know much about MP/utility sleds.

 

[actionjack]

It's funny. Just came home from Canada. One of our buddy's has a nice 800 Switchback and this year a '16 800 Assualt 144. Cool sled. He rides the 2013 Apex SE in the group and says well I know what my next sled will be. If money was no object I would have put my deposit in already for a SideWinder. I'll be shopping for a high mileage power steering Apex XTX until I can upgrade to a SideWinder. KUDOS Yamaha!

 

[steiner]

Let's be real Guy's. The apex motor is not the problem the chassis is.You can't
Get that chassis to do what a modem pro cross can do no matter how much money you spend.
A 250 + day riding all conditions on a apex chassis, you need a wheelchair once your done.
A 250+ day on a modern pro cross chassis riding all conditions is like you never ridden those miles.
If I only rode lakes, and wide open railroad beds all day I would fall asleep.

I guess I have mine set up very well then. 250-300 miles on groomed/ungroomed trails, in the ditch, over fields, lakes, rivers and in the wooded twisties.
I don't require a wheelchair. Heck, I've done 525 miles in one day. I was tired but I could still walk with ease.

 

[kinger]

I guess I have mine set up very well then. 250-300 miles on groomed/ungroomed trails, in the ditch, over fields, lakes, rivers and in the wooded twisties.
I don't require a wheelchair. Heck, I've done 525 miles in one day. I was tired but I could still walk with ease.

Totally agree with steiner here. I would have agreed with cobra jet when I rode my apex gt the first time, horrible! But after the RTX/MTX seat swap (best money spent if you ever want to stand up) and other suspension stuff I finally had to buy a light weight helmet because my neck was the only thing hurting after a long 330+ mile day! So your right stock out of the box the poo/doo/AC chassis are probably much better, with very little money and some time an apex can be right there. Just ask the 24 year old on a new 2016 800 axys chassis that couldn't keep up with me in woods last weekend!! He was coming to me for advice on how I ride so fast LOL. Funny part is I was about 80% of full steam just being cautious.

So summary: If you want to buy something, not touch it and ride it, newer chassis are awesome, motors not so awesome. If you don't mind tinkering and saving some money, apex is best sled you will ever own. I think the later is a much smaller population and why the apex has a cult like following. Sidewinder will never be a apex but even our loved apexs will have to die SOME day LOL. I agree with who ever said vintage plates I will have them on my apex too!

 

[Sasquatch]

Kinger I think you hit the nail on the head. I rode 1700 miles of every kind of trail imaginable in 9 days. Yep not the most flickable in the tight twisty bush trails but loaded with gear and on a 6 day tour I pause to think if that is what it is all about. On the powerlines and the pipeline the sled was as always in its element. Small squeeze followed by a surge of power and that 4 banger singing its song. Off throttle slowing for a sweeper set it into the corner, lean a little, back on the throttle feel the surge control it with the throttle and out of the corner. The Apex is so happy as a cruiser and the electric feel of the motor is addicting. I wonder and always have just how much influence all the negativity year after year browbeating the Apex for what it isn't, instead of what it is, has had. I know guys who have turned them into corner carvers that handle the rough with the best of them. Never mind the bashing from the other manufactures about the weight always comparing their two strokes, yet their 4 strokes are not that much lighter. This has created a mindset that in some ways is right but in others is meaningless.

I left Cat not because I didn't like the chassis they design I left because they dropped the 1000 triple Touring and my Cat was getting long in miles at 7,500 and I wanted to trade up. I would not accept an 800 twin touring sled so had to decide between a 900 ZR or an RX1. The RX Warrior won because of its four stroke (7,500 miles is nothing then) and 136 track, add a Jack seat got my touring back and 18,000 miles 12 years later still have it. Rode an 08 Apex and liked it but once I added a Apex seat to my Warrior and riser I had pretty much the same thing. I bought a 2011 Apex XTX in 2013 couldn't pass up the deal and the difference from all the earlier sleds was astounding. All the nit pick issues of the Apex where gone, closest to perfect they ever made. But for the most part that is lost on the masses because its an Apex!

What I find humorous is that a 150hp fat overweight sled that is a pile of junk in most peoples eyes has managed through time to stand up to sleds with 30hp more. Now cause Cat needs a 180 hp motor Yamaha has built one. I can see maybe why the Apex must go.

 

[Sledroll]

Good points TopGunn, As far as the prices go. Being a CNC machinist by trade I live by the mantra, ""You get what you pay for""! By all accounts the Sidewinder is and will be one hell of a sled, No deigning that. My issue is this, If the Sidewinder is not a stop gap and is the premier flagship sled for Yamaha from here on out, and there's no other built in Japan hyper sled coming in the future! Well, in my line of work that is not only sad but embarrassing for Yamaha! IMO it is equivalent of Chevy asking Ford to build the Corvette !!! OK end of rant, Flame away !!!

If it is engineered in Japan , then it shouldn't matter where it is built .
Even in China !

 

[journeyman]

Let's be real Guy's. The apex motor is not the problem the chassis is.You can't
Get that chassis to do what a modem pro cross can do no matter how much money you spend.
A 250 + day riding all conditions on a apex chassis, you need a wheelchair once your done.
A 250+ day on a modern pro cross chassis riding all conditions is like you never ridden those miles.
If I only rode lakes, and wide open railroad beds all day I would fall asleep.

I rode 200-250 miles each day for a week in the UP a month ago on my Attak. I am 52 years old and ride pretty aggressive and no wheel chair was needed. Its a pretty rare moment when I can't keep up with anyone I've ridden with unless they are a no fear snow cross racer. I think your assessment is a bit extreme. I find the Apex chassis easier to slot car too than the Viper.

 

[vodoo child]

If it is engineered in Japan , then it shouldn't matter where it is built .
Even in China !

""RED CHINA"" huh! I can just imagine what that sled would look and "" SELL"" like! And YES, that was a 100% non apologetic BASH at those "" COMMIE BASTARD'S""

 

[whitedust1]

Ok I just can't get my head around a Yamaha performance product line without Vector & Apex. If Vector & Apex go away then Yamaha would have 130 Viper & a 180-190 HP SW. Seems like a huge hole in that product line for for the 150-160 power cruiser. The Nytro was Yamaha's 139hp ditch banger for stand up riding an WOW was that easy to stand up ride on. Viper forced Nytro out and made sense to discontinue as many other Nytro issues as well. Yes Apex & Vector may go away soon but at 150-60 Hp both can be replaced with an all new powercruiser sled from Japan which would fill that void nicely with a 129-144 version equipped with a plush suspension an all the electronic pods & screens we demand. I would be all over a sled like that and I think Yamaha knows what we want & next year will be the year. Will that sled named Apex?.... prolly not but does it matter if it is featured correctly? It's coming I can feel it & sooooo logical for the core faithful.

 

[Sledroll]

""RED CHINA"" huh! I can just imagine what that sled would look and "" SELL"" like! And YES, that was a 100% non apologetic BASH at those "" COMMIE BASTARD'S""

the point is , if it is engineered by Yamaha , it can be built almost anywhere in the world , even the states or Canada .

 

[Sasquatch]

the point is , if it is engineered by Yamaha , it can be built almost anywhere in the world , even the states or Canada .

The motor is engineered in Japan as a complete package with all electronics (good thing) and I imagine will be shipped from there to Cat, the rest is designed at Cat and will be built there. This is not a all Yamaha sled but is a Yamaha engine to replace the Suk turbo twin. Yamaha gets to apply badging and tweak plastic a bit to give the product some sort of semblance of separation from the Cat counterparts. Same Cat chassis as the Viper different plastics to fit the turbo motor.

So in effect you are right it can be built in the US at the Cat factory same as before! Cat wins and Yami wins but it would never have happened had Cat not needed a new engine to replace the Suk IMHO but on reading some of the comments from the Cat guys they question the reliability of the Yamaha engine. Twin could take 300hp on stock motor, some are buying up 2016 turbos because they don't think the Yami can hold together past the 180 or 190 as delivered.

Time will tell how tough the engine is and how far past stock it can go!

 

[Sasquatch]

Let's be real Guy's. The apex motor is not the problem the chassis is.You can't
Get that chassis to do what a modem pro cross can do no matter how much money you spend.
A 250 + day riding all conditions on a apex chassis, you need a wheelchair once your done.
A 250+ day on a modern pro cross chassis riding all conditions is like you never ridden those miles.
If I only rode lakes, and wide open railroad beds all day I would fall asleep.

1,700 miles on my Apex and a Viper in every condition and trail known to a sled, some excellent, some good, some so so, and some a horror not able to describe!
Id say your wrong but you won't believe me so each to their own. I'll defend your right to be wrong all day long!