Are washers under the heilx a waste if primary not machined?

[Frostbite]

I have only one ride with .060" washers under my helix and the area I rode really didn't afford much in the way of high speed riding.

I'm wondering if having washers under the helix so the secondary clutches can shift out further is worthwhile if my primary sheaves haven't been machined to close further.

I notice the helix appears to be contacting the rub buttons closer to the edge of the helix. Does this do anything for low end performance?

Also, I am using a Dalton helix and they come already machined slightly so the clutches can shift out further.

Is the washer trick part of a larger procedure including primary machining or can it be considered a stand alone modification that actually works?

Frosty

 

[Bob Miller]

I rode 900 miles in four days last week in Quebec and tested the O/S/O primary spring and shimming the secondary with 5/16 lock washers for an overdrive effect, I tried this setup on several lakes up there and the most I could get out of it was 113 MPH on the speedo! Conditions on the lake where hard packed snow and 5-10 degrees out I was not impressed and I can not reccomend making this change :?

 

[welterracer]

I do not have a machined primary on my sled but yet i have a machined stock helix on my warrior..

Unless conditions are PEEERFECT... You wont usually see more than 115-117 on a trail..

Its usually only on glared ice or a road with a thin coating of snow that anyone sees 130 consistantly!

Last time i rode i only had it up to 113 on the tral.. and it was freshly groomed...

 

[Frostbite]

Bob and Weltmeister thanks for the info.

Bob, if this was the first time you tried the O/S/O perhaps its high total force rating may be as much to blame for your less than expected top end as the washers under the helix?

I may try it one more day but I just can't make my mind up if I should pull them off or leave them on. I think I may go to a mountain airstrip with them on and do a couple runs and then take them off and do the same and see if there is any difference. That would be a same day/same conditions test.

I'm still wondering if rasing the helix changes the way the sled reacts to angles of a helix? Does it make them seem like more or less than they actually are?

Frosty

 

[Tom-RX1]

I did the washer thing . I did not check for faster but found that the rpm is now lower at crusing speed ans seems to have helped the gas mileage .
Tom-RX1

 

[Snowman269]

The secondary shimming only works if the stock primary is machined to close further than stock. I have used Polaris clutches on my Yamahas because they close more than a Yamaha & the shim is effective due to that difference. Some aftermarket clutches also carry the belt higher in the primary for a higher top speed ratio. I also know of two Yamaha clutches that were machined too far & they went to pieces. Machining the primary must be carefully done. First sign you went too far is the belt draws too low in the secondary and rides on the hub. Belt-catastrophe.

 

[Anonymous]

I did the washer thing . I did not check for faster but found that the rpm is now lower at crusing speed ans seems to have helped the gas mileage .
Tom-RX1

Oh my god, you did a mod......

 

[helix]

Frostbite,as you have mentioned,our helix is already machined to allow for full belt travel with the primary clutch the way it comes(not machined).
However ,I have heard that some people still can gain a slight 1-2 mph increase under perfect ice conditions,etc.This may be slightly due do belt ballooning at high speed and pulling the belt slightly further into the sec clutch in certain circumstances.
One thing to keep in mind though(as it seems you are questioning),that when adding shims,especially on a regular progressive cut helix,that your rpm will drop a bit. You will be effectivly using more of the first angle on the helix,and less of the second angle. There is a posibility of getting another mph with this method in some conditions,but remember to do your final clutch calibration using the portion of the helix that you are using. ...does that make sense?Dale.

 

[Frostbite]

Dale, how nice to hear from you! Since I am referring to one of your helixes one has to wonder why the aftermarket manufacturers haven't machined the heliex an additional .020-.030 deep where you have relieved them already for additonal secondary shift out.

I would guess the answer is going to be that; the stock Yamaha primary doesn't shift out far enough to warrant machining any deeper into the helix?

Tom RX-1, better gas mileage is always a plus BUT I have to wonder did you lose a bit of snappiness on your back shift in the process?

Thanks Guys.

Frosty

 

[black john]

helx shimming

i found that if you do mods that every thing must be looked at ie if you clutch up and gain no performace check for other problems lile are the clutches alined are the carbs opennig all the way are the coils clean and not shorting to the vale cover are the piolt jets clean. these are some of the problems i have found on some RX 1,s that have showen performance problems and is it jetted properly. i was able to wax 800 ho rev,s even stock before clutching. even had a moster RX 1 mtn waxing them in 660-1000-1320. so when you clutch small problems that went not notest get bigger fast. you should be turnning up to 10500 rpm thats the target if it will not turn that with an o/s/o spring there are other problems.

 

[helix]

Frostbite,I guess you answered your own question. We could cut the hub down more,but depending on how much you overdrive,then you may have to cut the points down too so they dont hit in there,...you know.We did releive the hub enough to get it down on a stock primary clutch,and it is not really our position to tell people to cut overdrive into thier stock front clutch........like ,er,I did to mine this morning at my own risk.

lol,maybe yamaha lets the hub bottom out because they know that the stock pink secondary spring will coilbind??...just kidding,I don't know.

PS,I DID make a sec spring(only a few prototypes) that is a silver with a bit longer free length,I think I told you one time I was going to .So far it seems awsome,at least with the new weights I'm fooling with.
Same coils,wire diameter, and locations as silver, just 3/8" longer.
I will have production of these in a few weeks.

 

[Srxspec]

Dale, interesting on the secondary spring. I'm VERY interested in trying those. Dad tried calling you last week but you weren't around. He left a message to order some helixes! Also interested in the new weights you're fooling around with!

Allen

 

[Tom-RX1]

I did the washer thing . I did not check for faster but found that the rpm is now lower at crusing speed ans seems to have helped the gas mileage .
Tom-RX1

Oh my god, you did a mod......

Do not consider a mod just a minor adjustment . Put in a white spring as well witch i got by mistake . And it did not cost me a dime . Noticed that now it takes in more of the top helex angle so shifts a little better .
Tom-RX1

 

[Frostbite]

It sure is nice to have Dale, Allen and of course Freddie and Matt on here to share the things they have learned from their experiences actaully racing the RX-1 in sanctioned events.
Dale, I would love to try your new spring but I have to admit there may be those perhaps more suited to performing any testing it than I (racers) but if you have nay extras please keep my in mind.

Frosty

With or without the washers under the helix?

 

[helix]

Allen,I did get your message,and your order was shipped,you should probably have it now. Sorry I've been hard to get ahold of,been extremely busy,everyone's kits for new models are coming out right now and I've got a lot of irons in the fire right now.I'll try to remember to call tomorrow,or give me a call. Tell ol grampa to give me a call early before the time changes everywhere,lol(thats real early your time zone).

Frostbite,I returned your pm.