Belt damage?

[AndyB]

I have never come across this before so I figured I'd throw it out there for some feedback from more experienced individuals. Last year I had Allen Ulmer do over my primary and secondary clutches on my 2014 Sr Viper LTX. He did a fantastic job! Part of the clutch changes he made I had to use the 8DN belt. I bought an EPI Severe Duty belt that's their equivalent to the 8DN. I bought it brand new and put it in the sled last season. I washed it in warm soapy water and let it dry before I put it on my sled. I also broke in the belt for the first 25 miles by varying the throttle and not exceeding roughly 75 percent full throttle. Unfortunately, there was very little snow and I only put on a hundred and two miles all season long! I just took the sled out to give it a once-over and get things ready for the upcoming season and noticed that the inside of the belt where each individual "groove" is has melted material on top of each groove. I rub the tops of the grooves with my fingers and the melted material just flakes off but I've never seen this before on a belt. Is this normal? Or is this something I should be contacting EPI and seeing if they will replace it given it had a one year warranty and there's so little use on the Belt?

 

[cannondale27]

Belt deflection to tight?

 

[mtotguy]

Or maybe the primary clearance is off.

 

[Studroes144]

Is it on both sides of the belt or just one? If just one side then alignment could be an issue.

 

[AndyB]

Let me first say thank you for all the replies thus far. I did some checking tonight and I have to be honest everything with the clutches seems spot-on perfect. Following Allen's instructions on making sure that the track ever so slightly moves when the sled is on a stand and the belt is at the perfect height in the secondary as well as I have proper clearance with the free play on the secondary and clutch alignment with the primary is right within specification based on the Viper manual. The burning/melting of the cogs is on every single cog on the belt and it spans across the entire length of the cog. I am completely puzzled as to why it's happening as everything seems to be in order. Could it really be just a bad belt? I'm sure EPI is going to resist and I could understand but I don't see anything wrong in the clutch setup.

 

[AndyB]

Oh and I forgot to mention that the belt deflection might be actually a little too loose. Based on the paperwork I got from Allen it states that if you put a straightedge across the center of the secondary spanning to the center of the primary and push down on the Belt you should get a Max of 1 and a quarter inches and I have a solid 1 and 1/2 to 1 and 3/4 inches. Which seems odd given that everything else in the clutch setup is exactly as it should be. if I do what is required to tighten the belt by adding shims on the backside of the secondary then the belt is going to be sitting too high in the secondary and as of right now it's literally perfect.

 

[cannondale27]

It IS your deflection setting causing this. A Viper track does not roll on stand. Remove the belt and just to confirm set it in JUST the secondary.

 

[AndyB]

Cannondale, thanks for the help. I will try this. Simple enough to add a .5mm (90201-061 H1) or 1mm (90201-06037) washer to each of the 3 bolts on the back of the secondary. If I am understanding this correctly this will ultimately adjust the secondary's sheave clearance... which right now is within specification at 35.6mm (manual says anywhere between 35-35.8mm). The math here suggests I can add a .5mm shim which will reduce the sheave clearance to 35.1mm which is still within proper spec.

Quick and probably stupid question... right now my belt is sitting at the proper drive belt position/height in the secondary when the machine is at rest... at least according to the Viper manual (-.5mm to 1.5mm in relation to the top of the secondary...mine's about 1mm above the secondary). If I add shims to the back of the secondary to tighten up the belt and reduce my deflection won't that make the belt ride higher in the secondary when at rest...and then it'll ultimately not be "in spec" based on this parameter.

Lastly, is the belt I own now "smoked?" Does the melting of the cogs render the belt useless or do the cogs have less to do with performance than it's outer edge that rides along the sheaves of the clutches? Which, by the way are just fine.

 

[cannondale27]

Throw the specs out for deflection! You will need to make belt looser not tighter. So you will be removing washers. Like I said. Just set the belt in secondary to get close. Then look at on a ride in the snow. Is it squealing when stopped go looser. Does sled creep go looser. Does it engage violently go tighter. Don't make this more frustrating than need be. After clutches engage the deflection does absolutely nothing.

 

[cannondale27]

I would run that belt till it blows,

 

[NOS-PRO]

Throw the specs out for deflection! You will need to make belt looser not tighter. So you will be removing washers. Like I said. Just set the belt in secondary to get close. Then look at on a ride in the snow. Is it squealing when stopped go looser. Does sled creep go looser. Does it engage violently go tighter. Don't make this more frustrating than need be. After clutches engage the deflection does absolutely nothing.

Cannondale is right....the belt needs to be more loose. It's rubbing so much on the inside cogs.

 

[AndyB]

ok-- great to get such a awesome education! Here's my dilemma... there are no washers on the backside of the secondary. They have already been removed. It's just the 3 bolts with no washers so how do I loosen it more if there's nothing to remove?

The primary (at least that's where I think the noise is coming from) does "squeal" right now when you let off the throttle just before it returns back to the "home" (wide open) position. It doesn't squeal just idling and it doesn't squeal through acceleration but only squeals when you let off the throttle but only at the point of the primary getting to within a quarter to half inch from "home".... just in that "slightly past full open position" for maybe a quarter inch to half inch of movement and only on deceleration.

Sled doesn't creep on the ground... only when the sled's rear was raised on the stand and even then it only "barely" crept...maybe I had to use 1 finger to help it creep forward at times.

Thanks again everyone... just don't know how to loosen the belt when I have no washers left to remove.

 

[cannondale27]

Two choices then if washers are removed already. Run it as is or get a different belt. We know 8JP,8DN,Dayco XTX and all the Gates belts fit correctly. I have never run a EPI such as you have so either it is the wrong belt for sled or its just a junk belt.

 

[AndyB]

Cannondale, THANK YOU VERY MUCH ! this was ultimately what I was expecting to be the case . . . The belt must not be the same as the gates, Yamaha or dayco belts . . . Or indeed it is just an isolated incident with epi. I'll contact them and get back to the thread and let everyone know how it goes. Thanks again for everything . Andy B .

 

[AndyB]

thank you very much for all your time and help with this information. I'm going to contact EPI and see what they say. I'm suspecting or at least hoping it's just an isolated incident with one of their belts. I'll get back to the thread once I get an answer from them.