Blown belts?

[XP123]

Last season there were many reports about belts blowing and some snapping in half. While most of these issues are a result of hot clutches most owners reported cool clutches even after several long WOT pulls. I personally didn't have any belt issues but I only put 1600 miles on my SW. There were reports of secondary coil spring binding, flat rollers and even some primary spring binding and breaking. Has anyone actually found what the problems were or can it be any of these things or a combination of these things? I'm changing out most all of my components this year with a big venom clutch kit, orange secondary spring and 33/35 helix. From what I have read these changes pretty much remove all the suspected causes of the belt blowing problems. What's everyone's take on the belt issues and fixes? Maybe I should have just left my sled alone since I had no issues? Worse case scenario is I start having issues due to my changes.

 

[stevewithOCD]

I snapped a belt in half at 900 miles & clutches were cool. Some time later i realized primary spring was broken. I'm not sure if this caused the problem or the problem caused it. Anyways, i have a whole new TP set-up with quality springs & Gates belt. I will check offset & ride the SNOT out of it. By the end of January, we all will have great input on this subject unlike old 1100's that took years to fix...

 

[ROCKERDAN]

Joe, not a heat problem like the Cat had. As a matter of fact i posted a few times how COOL these clutches run compared directly to my 1200 pb80 that was smoking hot. Even though my doo never blew a belt. And I ran Toms(it was stock at the time) across the seguin trail at 60-80mph constant on this long straight hi speed trail....maybe 20 mins straight, stopped, put hand on clutches and just a nice luke warm.

I heard several SNAP(break in half) due to letting off, then hammering on it again..that IMO is the secondary not closing fast enough when letting off, and slack occurs(BTW this is typical on yam torsional secondaries as my apex did this alot) then when the guy hammers it again the primary whacks down on a slack belt and snap! Cats did this early on bigtime, lots of snapped belts.

A belt that delams or blows into pieces is more a wear thing, or heat.....

Don has some theories that sound valid....He blew one or two, but he had alot more miles then most...and then he saw the primary clutch spring broke, and/or coil binding....so that is where the glide washers come in. I wish last season was better, and more guys got alot more miles on them, as I think there will be alot more primary spring issues when guys get miles on these.

Then there was someone here who simply slid on his viper secondary, and cured his blowing belt probs...So his may have been bad rollers which we all know about and were updated.

Im not sure I buy the secondary coil bind theory, even though it sounds good. If you think about it, you would have had to be around 120mph to reach full shift(or abit higher according to some guys who ran 126 ish) before that secondary was fully shifted out and bottoming the sec spring....so not sure I buy that. I think if anything, that secondary just does not have enough torsion power to hold back the big power....yammies first attempt at a roller was a good attempt, but the sled has an electric smooth feel, and its great for easy trail riders, but I think the hammering off, then on is where the roller setup/too soft spring, and not enough side pressure spring, just could not keep up.

I think the new springs out from Dalton and Thunder, will go a long way. Even if ALL else is stock. And glide washers to help primary spring "twist and compress smoothly" and also I get rid of stock primary spring, its just too long imo.

A bud got his new SW, has it torn down already...told me ZERO changes on clutching(except ofcourse the new rollers)

Now his was built June, so who knows...But Don was told there are clutching updates from Yam...hmmmmmmm

Dan

 

[XP123]

Joe, not a heat problem like the Cat had. As a matter of fact i posted a few times how COOL these clutches run compared directly to my 1200 pb80 that was smoking hot. Even though my doo never blew a belt. And I ran Toms(it was stock at the time) across the seguin trail at 60-80mph constant on this long straight hi speed trail....maybe 20 mins straight, stopped, put hand on clutches and just a nice luke warm.

I heard several SNAP(break in half) due to letting off, then hammering on it again..that IMO is the secondary not closing fast enough when letting off, and slack occurs(BTW this is typical on yam torsional secondaries as my apex did this alot) then when the guy hammers it again the primary whacks down on a slack belt and snap! Cats did this early on bigtime, lots of snapped belts.

A belt that delams or blows into pieces is more a wear thing, or heat.....

Don has some theories that sound valid....He blew one or two, but he had alot more miles then most...and then he saw the primary clutch spring broke, and/or coil binding....so that is where the glide washers come in. I wish last season was better, and more guys got alot more miles on them, as I think there will be alot more primary spring issues when guys get miles on these.

Then there was someone here who simply slid on his viper secondary, and cured his blowing belt probs...So his may have been bad rollers which we all know about and were updated.

Im not sure I buy the secondary coil bind theory, even though it sounds good. If you think about it, you would have had to be around 120mph to reach full shift(or abit higher according to some guys who ran 126 ish) before that secondary was fully shifted out and bottoming the sec spring....so not sure I buy that. I think if anything, that secondary just does not have enough torsion power to hold back the big power....yammies first attempt at a roller was a good attempt, but the sled has an electric smooth feel, and its great for easy trail riders, but I think the hammering off, then on is where the roller setup/too soft spring, and not enough side pressure spring, just could not keep up.

I think the new springs out from Dalton and Thunder, will go a long way. Even if ALL else is stock. And glide washers to help primary spring "twist and compress smoothly" and also I get rid of stock primary spring, its just too long imo.

A bud got his new SW, has it torn down already...told me ZERO changes on clutching(except ofcourse the new rollers)

Now his was built June, so who knows...But Don was told there are clutching updates from Yam...hmmmmmmm

Dan

With the kit I have now and the new helix and secondary spring everything that came stock on my Sidewinder is gone and replaced. I have new weights, primary spring, glide washers, secondary spring and helix.

 

[ROCKERDAN]

With the kit I have now and the new helix and secondary spring everything that came stock on my Sidewinder is gone and replaced. I have new weights, primary spring, glide washers, secondary spring and helix.

Let me know when your thinking heading to Dons, Maybe we can jive so my new sled will be there....He is thinking Late Oct for mine...

 

[XP123]

Let me know when your thinking heading to Dons, Maybe we can jive so my new sled will be there....He is thinking Late Oct for mine...

That will be fine for me. I'm in no hurry to bring my sled in. I have about 50 face cord of firewood to cut and split this Fall to keep me busy.

 

[jonlafon1]

Joe, not a heat problem like the Cat had. As a matter of fact i posted a few times how COOL these clutches run compared directly to my 1200 pb80 that was smoking hot. Even though my doo never blew a belt. And I ran Toms(it was stock at the time) across the seguin trail at 60-80mph constant on this long straight hi speed trail....maybe 20 mins straight, stopped, put hand on clutches and just a nice luke warm.

I heard several SNAP(break in half) due to letting off, then hammering on it again..that IMO is the secondary not closing fast enough when letting off, and slack occurs(BTW this is typical on yam torsional secondaries as my apex did this alot) then when the guy hammers it again the primary whacks down on a slack belt and snap! Cats did this early on bigtime, lots of snapped belts.

A belt that delams or blows into pieces is more a wear thing, or heat.....

Don has some theories that sound valid....He blew one or two, but he had alot more miles then most...and then he saw the primary clutch spring broke, and/or coil binding....so that is where the glide washers come in. I wish last season was better, and more guys got alot more miles on them, as I think there will be alot more primary spring issues when guys get miles on these.

Then there was someone here who simply slid on his viper secondary, and cured his blowing belt probs...So his may have been bad rollers which we all know about and were updated.

Im not sure I buy the secondary coil bind theory, even though it sounds good. If you think about it, you would have had to be around 120mph to reach full shift(or abit higher according to some guys who ran 126 ish) before that secondary was fully shifted out and bottoming the sec spring....so not sure I buy that. I think if anything, that secondary just does not have enough torsion power to hold back the big power....yammies first attempt at a roller was a good attempt, but the sled has an electric smooth feel, and its great for easy trail riders, but I think the hammering off, then on is where the roller setup/too soft spring, and not enough side pressure spring, just could not keep up.

I think the new springs out from Dalton and Thunder, will go a long way. Even if ALL else is stock. And glide washers to help primary spring "twist and compress smoothly" and also I get rid of stock primary spring, its just too long imo.

A bud got his new SW, has it torn down already...told me ZERO changes on clutching(except ofcourse the new rollers)

Now his was built June, so who knows...But Don was told there are clutching updates from Yam...hmmmmmmm

Dan

Good stuff Dan. The stock primary spring is total junk and to long for sure. Glide washers and a different spring
I would agree also about the secondary not closing fast enough and the on off gas hard >snapping belts.. Blew a few last year myself, and definitely needed 2300 miles to get mine dialed in.. Do you feel having a steeper angled helix (higher number) helps with the secondary being more responsive and or closing faster? I really feel the secondary (and clutching in general) was "lazy" in stock form. Many changes were made on my clutching and believe the cure was not just one thing, but a combination of many things. Look forward to your writings now that your on a winder this winter

 

[ROCKERDAN]

I think that secondary spring was alot of the issue. Yammie secondarys have never had quick backshift, same as my apex yrs ago.

I think these new springs may really help alot with that, along with the glide washers and shorter primary spring.

Should be a fun season dialing these in....so many things from tunes to clutching, gotta love what yammie gave us to work with.

 

[XP123]

I think that secondary spring was alot of the issue. Yammie secondarys have never had quick backshift, same as my apex yrs ago.

I think these new springs may really help alot with that, along with the glide washers and shorter primary spring.

Should be a fun season dialing these in....so many things from tunes to clutching, gotta love what yammie gave us to work with.

I think this season will be a blast messing around with our Winders. You can tell just by how much action is on these forums lately. I hope Mother Nature is good to us, she owes us a few great Winters after the last two duds.

 

[ROCKERDAN]

I think this season will be a blast messing around with our Winders. You can tell just by how much action is on these forums lately. I hope Mother Nature is good to us, she owes us a few great Winters after the last two duds.

Joe, if we get a good winter its gonna be crazy fun. I agree, this season I think is where these new 998 turbos will really start to shine. Last season was first season, and look how far Ben took us in just a few months. He did a ton of testing and was able to release alot for us. I dont think anyone works harder for this 998 turbo then Ben. Not sure if he even sleeps? haha

And not to leave out all the other great tuners who are getting into this 998 bigtime too....I cant even imagine the crazy big power setups we are gonna see over the next few seasons...this engine according to Ben is just so much more forgiving on DETO compared to the SUK which was a monster in its own right. Triples just work so well for this. And the engine mounting being reversed with all the heat out back and away from the intakes(nose of sled) just always reminds me that the king of the original hi performance 4s snowmobile was Yamaha. Makes this all so much better overall now that we added turbo power.

I sure am getting excited. I cant wait for Don to give me the call when she is arriving!

 

[Joe ltx-le]

My belt story starts like this , in the first 200 miles I blew a belt and blamed it on the flat spotted rollers. So I changed them with cat rollers.
Within another 500 miles I broke another belt right in half. I then checked the offset ( it was bang on)and did some big runs to see how hot the clutches where. After a wot run down the lake turn around and another wot run the clutches where only just warm to the touch , not a heat issue.
Next was to check spring bond in the secondary , I shimmed the helix out, change to 6-1 and thought I had the fix until kaboom a third belt in 1500 miles.
Next was to try the apex (8dn) belt. Bad idea I found the belt slipped a bit and it eventually disintegrated in -30c. Bad night.

In total I blew five belts in 5000 miles. I've yet to really figure out the problem.

Bushings in the secondary look good. ( one roller does not touch )

I'm going to try a clutch kit from thunder i think. Just holding off to see if yamaha will help me with my clutches.

Keep up the help guys.

 

[stevewithOCD]

You may have the worst case scenario yet. The cool clutches gives me hope for Yamaha's design. AC had serious problems for years on this ProCross chassis & their clutches. I used to wait until the END of the day to race an 1100. By then their belt was warn giving me a chance. I snapped 1 belt, but have 1600 miles on next belt including about 40 miles of towing. If i can get 1500 miles a belt without SNAPPING it in 2, i'll be happy...by February 1 you will be writing HOW JOE FIXED HIS CLUTH ISSUE

 

[stevewithOCD]

Assuming your name is Joe...

 

[ROCKERDAN]

My belt story starts like this , in the first 200 miles I blew a belt and blamed it on the flat spotted rollers. So I changed them with cat rollers.
Within another 500 miles I broke another belt right in half. I then checked the offset ( it was bang on)and did some big runs to see how hot the clutches where. After a wot run down the lake turn around and another wot run the clutches where only just warm to the touch , not a heat issue.
Next was to check spring bond in the secondary , I shimmed the helix out, change to 6-1 and thought I had the fix until kaboom a third belt in 1500 miles.
Next was to try the apex (8dn) belt. Bad idea I found the belt slipped a bit and it eventually disintegrated in -30c. Bad night.

In total I blew five belts in 5000 miles. I've yet to really figure out the problem.

Bushings in the secondary look good. ( one roller does not touch )

I'm going to try a clutch kit from thunder i think. Just holding off to see if yamaha will help me with my clutches.

Keep up the help guys.

Just wondering, did they all snap? Do you often ride hard, let off, then whack throttle hard again? I know a snapped belt typically happens with this type of riding so just wondering.

How does the stock primary spring look? Is there marks chewing up in primary? This worries me cause most guys did not get alot of miles on these SWs and the few that did ALL seem to have blow several belts(ask me dealer how I know) I believe the stock spring is too long, and binds upon compression(cannot twist and galls into seats) so Many of us have gone to a shorter spring, with glide washers to aid in twisting motion as it compresses.

So this season with more miles, we may see alot more blown belts on stockers....

and according to a bud with an 18, there are ZERO changes to the clutching from last season.(new rollers only)

Dan

 

[Joe ltx-le]

Just wondering, did they all snap? Do you often ride hard, let off, then whack throttle hard again? I know a snapped belt typically happens with this type of riding so just wondering.

How does the stock primary spring look? Is there marks chewing up in primary? This worries me cause most guys did not get alot of miles on these SWs and the few that did ALL seem to have blow several belts(ask me dealer how I know) I believe the stock spring is too long, and binds upon compression(cannot twist and galls into seats) so Many of us have gone to a shorter spring, with glide washers to aid in twisting motion as it compresses.

So this season with more miles, we may see alot more blown belts on stockers....

and according to a bud with an 18, there are ZERO changes to the clutching from last season.(new rollers only)

Dan

Not all
My belts have snapped , 2 did though.

All the rest grenaded and got rope all tangled in the secondary, and did I mention it was below -20 the last time.