Metallicat
TY 4 Stroke God
It might not make too much of a difference in the pocketbook, but the RANGE of a 4 stroke is appealing, which directly relates to fuel economy. Last year my group rode 120 miles before finding a gas station because we got mixed up on a trail and took a bit of a detour. All 4 sleds in the group, mine included, had less than a half gallon of fuel left in the tank. If that distance had stretched to 130 miles then we would all have been stuck on the trail. In fact, if my ZR6 was stock at that time, I would have been dead at 110 miles (but I had a 711 big bore kit on which allowed me to get the same mileage as the smaller Polaris twins I was riding with). I believe with a 4 stroke you won't have the typical 2 stroke "panic attack" when your odo reads 100 miles from your last fillup. There is something to be said for being able to travel 150+ miles on a tank if needed. Of course, the Doo SDI 600 will do this too, but that is more of an exception to the rule.
rhoag said:
yammiman
Expert
To me it is not just one thing - it is a combination of things - just the fact that an Apex can run with and beat an SRX is pretty impressive IMO - then you have the ride and advanced technology of the sled and it becomes a "no brainer" for long term trail riding - the opposition talks about the weight, but I have never felt it was an issue - I could run through the rough stuff with the best of them - at the end of the day, I get tired regardless of what I am riding - the overall package of the current Yamaha's are pretty hard to beat IMO!!!! 
QCRider
TY 4 Stroke Master
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angus said:
Sure, just don't ride with or in front of me.
opsled
Newbie
rhoag said:
Your missing the point. It's not so much an anual cost savings on the milage factor it's the fact that you don't have to worry about running out. There is great comfort in knowing you can ride many more miles and not have to worry about where the next fuel stop is going to be and if you can make it there. You keep quoting "monthly payments" like that means something. This isn't a real estate investment it is a SNOWMOBILE. You make it sound as though a 4 stroke Yammie is twice the money of a two stroke and it is not the case. They are priced as cheap as any equivelent 2 stroke out there if not cheaper. Today you just can't get a better bang for the buck no matter what you ride and they are holding their value better that a two stroke would. If you have to make payments on one because you can't afford it any other way you probably should not buy a new one (2 or 4 stroke). These Yamaha 4 strokes are NOT!!! any more expensive to buy NEW that anything else out there so your cost/payment excuse is (to me) completely out the window. If you need to go through all these calculations on anual miles vs milage vs gas prices vs oil consumption to justify what sled you buy you should probably stay in the house when it snows.
I own a 4 stroke and several 2 strokes all of which I love for different reasons but if I had to justify them I sure wouldn't use dollars to do it. If I did I wouldn't own any of them. It is a passion that I have for the sport and I justify it because it makes me happy.......... and for no other reason.
We are ALL entitled to our .02,
opsled
donmac
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I just started up my 3 2-strokes before the new owner picked them up, as I've said elsehwere, I think the cloud of smoke killed a few birds....
I picked up a couple of 4 strokes last year - primarily because the new fangled riding position makes it MUCH better for my back - but I love the fact that they don't smoke/stink... I started up the Phazer for the first time this year to pull it off the trailer and LOVED the way it started right up with no smoke, no mucking with the choke, etc... -donmac
I picked up a couple of 4 strokes last year - primarily because the new fangled riding position makes it MUCH better for my back - but I love the fact that they don't smoke/stink... I started up the Phazer for the first time this year to pull it off the trailer and LOVED the way it started right up with no smoke, no mucking with the choke, etc... -donmac
rhoag
Expert
opsled said:
ops read this thread 4strokes are not holding their value http://www.ty4stroke.com/viewtopic.php? ... highlightI really wonder how many people on this site just walk in and throw down 9800-11000 for a new apex. Payments are a fact of life for most people. So are you saying that everyone that trys to get 4 guys to go, so that they can split fuel cost in the truck should stay home too? Not all of us are rich with no children!! Some people ...like me... have kids with special medical needs and one in college. I suppose I should just make my daughter take out loans and pay her own college. Naaa i'll just stay home when it snows because her education is more important than snowmobiling. Or sell my apex and get a 2 stroke for cash because I do enjoy snowmobiling. Everybody has different priorities and to me 10,000 on a snowmobile isn't high on my list right now.[/url]
Angus viper
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rhoag as far as throwing down 9800-1100 for a new apex. all the new sleds from all the sled makers around that price range! (2&4 stroke)! that bike in you avatar looks like it would cost alot of money! why not sell it and buy an old 2 stroke bike? let me guess probably because the that 4 stroke is way better than the old ones in every way! if you want to ride a 2 stroke all the power to ya! but if your trying to say 2's are better than 4's, i think your on the wrong site for that! as long as your out riding and enjoying this great sport, than who realy cares what you ride!
rhoag
Expert
angus,
You wouldn't believe what that bike cost, that is higher on my priority list because I get to enjoy it more. But, I have never once said 2 strokes were better than 4 strokes or that NEW 4 strokes were more expensive than any other NEW sled. Is a new apex 9800-11000? yes they are, so how is that saying they cost more than other sleds, it's just a fact. I think where I am failing to communicate here is, I had a new apex GT and went back to an 02 used sled. There is a huge cost difference in a new 4 stroke and a good used 2 stroke. If I was to win the lottery right now and have no money concerns, I would buy three 4 strokes; 07 attack (red), new 08 Nitro rtx and a vector ltx for my wife and maybe on 2 stroke 01 SRX. Why because I do like the 4 stroke sleds why do you think I bought 2 of them. But, I also feel the 2 strokes have some advantages. So didn't you guys have any fun snowmobiling before 2003 and the invent of the RX1? Maybe after one season back on the old antique Viper I will will bite the bullet and pick up someones used 07 attack or maybe I will enjoy the smell of klotz and feel great about going back to the way I remember snowmobiling in the dark ages. Ok can I crack one joke without someone going ballistic? That's if someones 4 stroke doesn't push through a corner and take me out!!! Come on don't take this as an attack on your sled. Ride what ya brung and enjoy riding. I see a lot/most couldn't go back to a 2stroke for various reasons. I really had my doubts too and maybe I started this post in an attempt to subconsiously convince myself not to do it. I did get a smoking deal on the viper and could probably sell it for more than I paid for it. Then get the 07 attack that I wanted to get last year. But, like ops kinda said "pay cash" so instead I will ride the Viper and save money. Then buy a used 4 stroke maybe next year or the next. I suppose if I rode 4,000 miles a year or so sleds would be higher on my priority list but, work, family and mother nature keep me down in the 1,000 -1500 miles a year bracket.
You wouldn't believe what that bike cost, that is higher on my priority list because I get to enjoy it more. But, I have never once said 2 strokes were better than 4 strokes or that NEW 4 strokes were more expensive than any other NEW sled. Is a new apex 9800-11000? yes they are, so how is that saying they cost more than other sleds, it's just a fact. I think where I am failing to communicate here is, I had a new apex GT and went back to an 02 used sled. There is a huge cost difference in a new 4 stroke and a good used 2 stroke. If I was to win the lottery right now and have no money concerns, I would buy three 4 strokes; 07 attack (red), new 08 Nitro rtx and a vector ltx for my wife and maybe on 2 stroke 01 SRX. Why because I do like the 4 stroke sleds why do you think I bought 2 of them. But, I also feel the 2 strokes have some advantages. So didn't you guys have any fun snowmobiling before 2003 and the invent of the RX1? Maybe after one season back on the old antique Viper I will will bite the bullet and pick up someones used 07 attack or maybe I will enjoy the smell of klotz and feel great about going back to the way I remember snowmobiling in the dark ages. Ok can I crack one joke without someone going ballistic? That's if someones 4 stroke doesn't push through a corner and take me out!!! Come on don't take this as an attack on your sled. Ride what ya brung and enjoy riding. I see a lot/most couldn't go back to a 2stroke for various reasons. I really had my doubts too and maybe I started this post in an attempt to subconsiously convince myself not to do it. I did get a smoking deal on the viper and could probably sell it for more than I paid for it. Then get the 07 attack that I wanted to get last year. But, like ops kinda said "pay cash" so instead I will ride the Viper and save money. Then buy a used 4 stroke maybe next year or the next. I suppose if I rode 4,000 miles a year or so sleds would be higher on my priority list but, work, family and mother nature keep me down in the 1,000 -1500 miles a year bracket.
Mighty
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Dat sho is one purdy R1 
rhoag
Expert
Thanks you mighty. Yes and very fun on the race track!!! I only live about an hour from Road America. 183 MPH indicated before braking for turn one is a BLAST!
Angus viper
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rhoag, i think your missing my point! who the f@#K cares what you ride! 2 or 4 ! and yes i did enjoy sledding before 03. my last sled was a 01 sxr with 12,000 trouble free miles on it! and before that i had 98 vmax 500 with 9000 trouble free miles on it! i think YAMAHA sleds in general are the best on the snow 2 or 4! all i'm saying is if you want to drive a 2 stroke it is ok! you don't have to explane yourself!!! 
opsled
Newbie
rhoag said:
You started this thread comparing costs and your payments on a new 4 stroke to the cost of a used 2 stroke and are trying to use that logic to justify going back to a 2 stroke. You are comparing apples to oranges and your logic makes no sense. If you were to compare new to new or used to used (2 or 4 stroke) and had some numbers to back up your your reasoning you would have a point. But to take the cost of a new 4 stroke and your payments on it in comparison to a used 2 stroke is nothing more than a comparison between new and used and nothing to do with whether one is better than the other. There are also many used 4 strokes on the market that can be had for a song compared to their cost new that could have been used for your comparison too.
4 strokes are holding their value as good as anything out there in the world of snowmobiles and that link does nothing to disprove that fact. I don't care what you buy (2 stroke, 4 stroke, Yamaha , Ski Doo, Cat, cars, trucks, lawnmowers, TVs, computers, wheelbarrows, underware, whatever) NEW will never compare in price with something equal but USED unless Elvis drove it or wore it. Used sleds are all down in value in many places because of lack of snow and other reasons. SRXs, Vipers and others have taken a larger beating in value than others because of the demand for a 4 stroke which is a factor on why you can get one so cheap. I think one of the best buys in a used sled today is a Yamaha tripple 2 stroke because they are so good and so cheap. You can buy a low miles SRX 700 today for less than I paid for a new Phazer in 1986 and that SRX is 10 times the sled the Phazer was. It is a buyers market right now in the world of used sleds.
It sounds to me like you bought a new 4 stroke and were just as happy with your 2 stroke so you can't justify the payment on a new sled when you could have 2 or 3 used ones for the same money. If thats the case I would agree with your move to get rid of your 4 stroke and buy a used 2 stroke. If it works for you and thats what you want go for it.
Payments are a fact of life only for those who choose to have them. I am not rich by any means and I choose to NOT have payments on anything but a place to live. I am self employed, self insured and putting 3 kids through collage. My youngest has epilepsy and his meds are about $400 a month so you and I are in similair situations. I drive a 1986 Jeep diesel pickup because it gets 35mpg, does what I need and doesn't have payments. I bought an 03 RX Limited in the fall of 04 with 556 miles on it for $5600 cash and wouldn't have done it if I had to make payments. It's the most expensive toy I have and I will have that sled for a long time. I have a 92 Vmax 4 that I built out of 3 wrecks that is my river runner and quite a few other old Yammies that I have picked up here and there for little or nothing.
The bottom line is that we all buy what we can afford and make do when we need to but we still have to have a little fun so if payments on a $10,000 sled are more than what you want dump it and get that Yammie tripple. It's a great sled and no one that owns one should have to justify it to anyone.
opsled
Yamahnator
TY 4 Stroke Guru
rhoag said:
I think it's the tone of your thread here that has people scratching their heads. Someone else said it, but it sounds like you're trying to convince yourself that going back to a 2 stroke is your best bet. But in reality it looks as though you're trying to convince others.
Each person has to decide what is economical and right for them. Like you commenting on your daughter's college. I don't see how buying an old 2 stroke over a "newer" 4 stroke is going to really save you the amount of money we're talking about for a college degree. Especially when you own that bike (and yes being an R1 owner I do know what that bike most likely cost). You have to decide your priorities, but you can't expect to convince others of what their priorities should be. You're saying that you aren't trying to do that but if one just reads the whole tone of your thread that's exactly what you are doing.
rhoag
Expert
Yamahnator ...Nice stand up.
I guess I should have put myself through college so I could get my point across better in writing. Sorry guys! I'm not trying to convince anyone to go back to a 2 stroke. The word back indicates that it's a step back. Like I said before I will miss a lot of things about my 4 stroke but, I also remember how much I liked the 02 Viper I used to have because of it's handling. I was in the Navy for 21 years and only remember the good stuff not the mid shift quarterdeck watches etc... I do remember the trip from our camp in the UP to grand maria when the gas station in Shingleton burned down. I was sweeting it and didn't know if I would make it all the way...a little less thumb on trail 8 helps! So anyway, Like I said it appears most couldn't go back, i'm going to for awhile and hope you guys welcome me back to this side of the board when I do.
I guess I should have put myself through college so I could get my point across better in writing. Sorry guys! I'm not trying to convince anyone to go back to a 2 stroke. The word back indicates that it's a step back. Like I said before I will miss a lot of things about my 4 stroke but, I also remember how much I liked the 02 Viper I used to have because of it's handling. I was in the Navy for 21 years and only remember the good stuff not the mid shift quarterdeck watches etc... I do remember the trip from our camp in the UP to grand maria when the gas station in Shingleton burned down. I was sweeting it and didn't know if I would make it all the way...a little less thumb on trail 8 helps! So anyway, Like I said it appears most couldn't go back, i'm going to for awhile and hope you guys welcome me back to this side of the board when I do.
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