kviper
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I have been in business many year's and I will gaurantee you the world economy has the dealer's in hard times far more than any thing Yamaha has done to them. LOL, I'am sure you are wright.dirkdiggler said:kviper said:
Yep it's got to be the dealers fault couldn't be Yamaha's fault "tongue firmly in cheek"
I've always considered my self a Yamaha guy, my first sled was a 71 SL338 & over the years I've owned mostly Yamaha's - most recently a 07 Phazer & 08 Nytro. I've got Yamaha boat motors, a Yamaha lawn tractor, and have had many Yamaha dirt bikes & ATV's- have a 71 338 vintage sled too.
Unfortunately none of the current Yamaha sleds appeal to me. I now ride a Skidoo Etec - it's the first skidoo I've ever owned & it's the most fun & enjoyable sled I've had since my 84 Phazer. I wish Yamaha made it.
Maybe someday Yamaha will build a HPDI 2 stroke or a better handling, lighter 4 stroke & I'll be back. Each year I wait for the new model releases- only to be disappointed again. I'm sure the new Apex & Vector are fine sleds - they just don't suit my needs/ wants. But I'll continue to keep my old Yamaha clothes in the closet & hope.
Unfortunately none of the current Yamaha sleds appeal to me. I now ride a Skidoo Etec - it's the first skidoo I've ever owned & it's the most fun & enjoyable sled I've had since my 84 Phazer. I wish Yamaha made it.
Maybe someday Yamaha will build a HPDI 2 stroke or a better handling, lighter 4 stroke & I'll be back. Each year I wait for the new model releases- only to be disappointed again. I'm sure the new Apex & Vector are fine sleds - they just don't suit my needs/ wants. But I'll continue to keep my old Yamaha clothes in the closet & hope.
EnticerRider
Extreme
Well I have been doing some thinking on this subject why would one of our dealers in the area drop yamaha! Well I am Majoring in auto dealership management working on my Bachelors degree. I believe the reason a dealer may drop yamaha compared with other brands is for several reasons.
1. yamaha's are unchanged for 4 model years and have not made attempts and improving their platforms even in small amounts.
2. yamaha has claimed #1 in reliability this hurts the dealer as the sleds are running longer needing minimal repairs. Where the 2stroke competitors are 1 less expensive and two the added expense of owning a 2 stroke means; if you are not buying a new x brand snowmobile their 2 stroke is going to bring in large revenues to the dealer. Parts, Service and oil injection oil. Top end rebuilds, warranty work, diagnostics, carb cleaning, crank failures ect. A dealer MAKES MORE off PARTS & SERVICE than any other department.
So a bullet proof yamaha that start a $10,000 US will run longer with half the issues as a 7-9K 2stroke that needs work all the time. I mean common ski doo uses sealed crank bearings on the crank shaft equaling a ticking time bomb. This is a guaranteed reason to either bring the dealer work and buy oem parts and labor. Or buy another sled.
With the economy in this slow rescission those who can afford to ride will go longer with older models. Especially yamaha riders who are waiting for a new release to upgrade!
It all means less revenue for dealers. If you havent noticed manufacturers have cut back production as there are almost no leftover models . Meaning less deals to be had .
1. yamaha's are unchanged for 4 model years and have not made attempts and improving their platforms even in small amounts.
2. yamaha has claimed #1 in reliability this hurts the dealer as the sleds are running longer needing minimal repairs. Where the 2stroke competitors are 1 less expensive and two the added expense of owning a 2 stroke means; if you are not buying a new x brand snowmobile their 2 stroke is going to bring in large revenues to the dealer. Parts, Service and oil injection oil. Top end rebuilds, warranty work, diagnostics, carb cleaning, crank failures ect. A dealer MAKES MORE off PARTS & SERVICE than any other department.
So a bullet proof yamaha that start a $10,000 US will run longer with half the issues as a 7-9K 2stroke that needs work all the time. I mean common ski doo uses sealed crank bearings on the crank shaft equaling a ticking time bomb. This is a guaranteed reason to either bring the dealer work and buy oem parts and labor. Or buy another sled.
With the economy in this slow rescission those who can afford to ride will go longer with older models. Especially yamaha riders who are waiting for a new release to upgrade!
It all means less revenue for dealers. If you havent noticed manufacturers have cut back production as there are almost no leftover models . Meaning less deals to be had .
darv
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x2 Enticer Rider you are right there are very small margins in selling sleds the money is in parts & cloths take a sled sales for msrp for 12k they sell around 10k -10500.00 and try to make $500.00 they sell you a new suit for around 700.00 and give you a deal and still make 200.00. with not a lot of investment
AKrider
TY 4 Stroke God
Enticer,
You did a great job explaining the business model. I think Yamaha's emphasis on reliability over innovation and improvement really hurts them in the recreational vehicle market. If they were selling full size work trucks than it would be perfect. People need vehicles and want them to last. People don't need toys and because they are used for recreation and fun, they need to be continuely improved, especally in areas where people have expressed displeasure.
I don't see how Yamaha can expect to increase sales when they sell the same product year after year (I'm talking primarily about the Nytro). The last sales break down I saw had Yamaha in 3rd ahead of Cat. I don't see things staying that way this season.
Yamaha builds very reliable sleds and that's why I swtiched over and bought two since '05. But they can't expect to keep their customer's by selling the same thing year after year and not addressing the problem areas. They need to do what Polaris did with the Indy. Sure it was the same basic sled year after year but they continued to refine and improve it. The best thing was the improvements were backwards compatible and you could buy the new parts and upgrade your Indy. This made your seld much more desireable in the used market. I recall the biggest reason to buy a new Indy was to get a newer, different engine. The basic chassis was the same thing, but little suspension refinements, year after year made it the best sled at the time.
You did a great job explaining the business model. I think Yamaha's emphasis on reliability over innovation and improvement really hurts them in the recreational vehicle market. If they were selling full size work trucks than it would be perfect. People need vehicles and want them to last. People don't need toys and because they are used for recreation and fun, they need to be continuely improved, especally in areas where people have expressed displeasure.
I don't see how Yamaha can expect to increase sales when they sell the same product year after year (I'm talking primarily about the Nytro). The last sales break down I saw had Yamaha in 3rd ahead of Cat. I don't see things staying that way this season.
Yamaha builds very reliable sleds and that's why I swtiched over and bought two since '05. But they can't expect to keep their customer's by selling the same thing year after year and not addressing the problem areas. They need to do what Polaris did with the Indy. Sure it was the same basic sled year after year but they continued to refine and improve it. The best thing was the improvements were backwards compatible and you could buy the new parts and upgrade your Indy. This made your seld much more desireable in the used market. I recall the biggest reason to buy a new Indy was to get a newer, different engine. The basic chassis was the same thing, but little suspension refinements, year after year made it the best sled at the time.
kinger
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Does anyone have a guess to what the margins are for sleds? 30% from retail?
darv
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no it is like 16-17% clothes is 40% and parts can go as 100% bu8t it depends on what it is.
RXMax
Expert
darv said:
you'd be surprised by the margin on new sleds... just to move them its less than 10%...
My local dealer has problems with Yamaha as well. They want a better intro trail sled. They have lost so many of the regular riders to other brands who do not want the rider forward, cold riding Phazer and Nyto's or the weight of the Vector and Apex. Bring back an A-Arm'd Viper or even a trailing arm viper with a 120hp HPDI for less than 8k and they would sell the lights out... They have the parts and the technology already to go.. Even the regional yamaha reps are getting frustrated.
RXMax said:
I'd have to agree on the less than 10%. Theyre isnt as much markup on sleds as most people think there is. Expecially when you have to compete with the ones selling them at damn near cost.
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