PB (no J),
Here's my $.02. As you know I don't have ECP's this is just some Monday morning quarterbacking.
I think you have changed to many jetting adjustments at once. I DEFINATELY agree with you that running 165's at sea level and 6000+ feet makes little since. However being a 4-stroke it shouldn't be so far off as to run horrible. I would first remove the ATACC then I would go back to 1 1/4 turns on the screw and #3 on the needles. Then go with 165 or if you want to try slightly leaner 162.5's. See how it runs.
If you do not like how it runs makes SMALL adjustments to ONE carb setting at a time. Typically with the RX if the mains are slightly fat it will still run pretty darned good but you will start turning the exhaust tips black.
I don't care much for the blunt needles in this thing, but for now it is all we have to work with.
If you go to the above mentioned settings and report results here then Freddie should help dial you in from there as that is his recomended setup.
Here's my $.02. As you know I don't have ECP's this is just some Monday morning quarterbacking.
I think you have changed to many jetting adjustments at once. I DEFINATELY agree with you that running 165's at sea level and 6000+ feet makes little since. However being a 4-stroke it shouldn't be so far off as to run horrible. I would first remove the ATACC then I would go back to 1 1/4 turns on the screw and #3 on the needles. Then go with 165 or if you want to try slightly leaner 162.5's. See how it runs.
If you do not like how it runs makes SMALL adjustments to ONE carb setting at a time. Typically with the RX if the mains are slightly fat it will still run pretty darned good but you will start turning the exhaust tips black.
I don't care much for the blunt needles in this thing, but for now it is all we have to work with.
If you go to the above mentioned settings and report results here then Freddie should help dial you in from there as that is his recomended setup.
Fullback
Expert
On my 136 stretched shortie I'm running Heavy Hitters with the ECP kit with 165 mains and the green springs, stock needle position and screws. No hesitation whatsoever. The mid range pull is very strong. Lake racing in 1500' this Saturday I had a T-cat pass me once on top. Other than that I never lost during probably a dozen runs with 10 or more sleds. Including 4 F7s,800XCR, T-cats, Warrior, Rx1, Prox 700and 800. The test sleds which I ran against last year locally have proven to me that the filters work strongest in the mid range. My top end is down but in that distance it's working real well with the added pull...
170plus
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2004
- Messages
- 541
- Location
- washburn maine
- Country
- USA
- Snowmobile
- 2021 polaris assault 850,18 sidewinder ltx,14 nitro xtx,06 apex rtx,
im in northern main 600-700 ft,165 mains,fuel screws 2.25 turns out,needles in #4 position,silver springs,had bobble in #3 position so went to 4 and it went away,i was wondering if the fuel screws out a little more would do the same as moving needle up 1 position just havent had it apart to try it,it is working very well,on the trails my buddies 800xc twin pipes,reeds,clutch kit etc would leave me 10 sled lengths from 20 to 80 now he might get me 1 or 2 and after 100 i go by him so its made a big difference there for sure,as far as top end im still seeing 129-130 on the dream meter on our 1/2 mile rr bed test spot,thats being geared down to 23/40,have lost gas mileage but i think thats mostly due to the fact that the sled is a lot more fun to drive with that pull in the midrange,find myself always cracking the throttle just to feel it pull,the only thing i really dont like so far from the kit is the oil film on everything coming from the breather (i may have went overboard with the red oil that came with breather) will clean it up and see,leaving friday morning for 9 days from allagash me. to montreal then back up around the gaspe then back thru cambelton nb to allagash so this will test the whole workings of everything good luck 170plus
1xr
Expert
There are a few things about these filters I don't understand.
1. Why do they seen to have less topend? I felt that they did, Is it jetting, or clutched for the wrong rpm.
2. I don't really know how to read plugs on a four stroke. Mine are very light grey borderlineing on white, thats with 165 and 180(whitch are an aftermarket jet)
I know how to correct is the bottom end lean spot, with needles and fuel screws.
These things work awsome bottom and midrange, but like I said I can't really tell if it's really lean or not. But the top end is inconsistant.
1. Why do they seen to have less topend? I felt that they did, Is it jetting, or clutched for the wrong rpm.
2. I don't really know how to read plugs on a four stroke. Mine are very light grey borderlineing on white, thats with 165 and 180(whitch are an aftermarket jet)
I know how to correct is the bottom end lean spot, with needles and fuel screws.
These things work awsome bottom and midrange, but like I said I can't really tell if it's really lean or not. But the top end is inconsistant.
FlatLandRacing
Extreme
I just want to comment I experienced the same topend loss and could not break 10,000. Talked to Jaymorr, he mentioned about arcing in the plug cap and black dust build up, sure enough I had a lot of black dust. Cleaned it out of plug cap with q-tip and cleaned the top of the plugs and instantly back to 10,500 ! I am running an 03 with 136" extension geared down to 40T on bottom, 165 mains, silver springs, 3 turns out, stock needle height. Yesterday on a hard pack road I pulled 127mph on speedo and got there in a heartbeat, temp was about -15c.
FlatLandRacing said:
Tell me more about this dust. Any pics? What causes it?
FlatLandRacing
Extreme
black dust thats all, suspect arcing from the plug cap to plug caused by moisture ?
Turbo Tim
TY 4 Stroke Master
:cry: STILL WAITING ON MY ECP KIT :cry: GOOD THING I'M IN ALASKA
AND HAVE A LONG WINTER 8) 8) 8) :lol: :lol:
AND HAVE A LONG WINTER 8) 8) 8) :lol: :lol:
jddieselperformance
Newbie
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2003
- Messages
- 1
Well I am sure glad to see that this has turned to an open contructive idea generating post. I just learned alot this morning from reading it. I also have the dredded burble. I can't seem to get rid of it. My buddy has a 151" mountain and has ZERO burble, he loves it and it runs very strong even on top end.
I on the other hand just didn't get as lucky. I have 165 main, tried Yellow (or Gold) and Silver srings. Tried TPV from .69v to 1.04 at idle. I have tried every needle position. I have tried the AIR screws (the ones on the sides of the carbs) to 2.5 turns. Now I see discussion of the FUEL screw. Is this the same one or did we start using them interchangeably by mistake (or my ignorance)
Any HELP would be greatly worth it. As a note after I crashed my sled and crushed my filters to a near pancake the 6500 to 8000 burble seemed to be gone. (or it was my head spinning)
Look forward to any info.
Thanks,
I on the other hand just didn't get as lucky. I have 165 main, tried Yellow (or Gold) and Silver srings. Tried TPV from .69v to 1.04 at idle. I have tried every needle position. I have tried the AIR screws (the ones on the sides of the carbs) to 2.5 turns. Now I see discussion of the FUEL screw. Is this the same one or did we start using them interchangeably by mistake (or my ignorance)
Any HELP would be greatly worth it. As a note after I crashed my sled and crushed my filters to a near pancake the 6500 to 8000 burble seemed to be gone. (or it was my head spinning)
Look forward to any info.
Thanks,
race24x
TY 4 Stroke Master
Just my .02 because I do not have the kit yet. But when I do get it first thing I will do is test on a spot on the lake with a radar gun, install it with recommended jets then have the carbs synced I understand they are off fromthe factory quite a bit. Then go back to the same spot same day and try it on the lake. Then go for a trial ride to see if there are any problems under conditions. I have to admit it sounds like you have alot of variables with the Ataac system etc. I know this sounds dumb but have you checked the TORS for your shutoff at idle problem? Does the motor idle down and shut off or does it just quit like you jit the kill switch? Keep in mind I am not there so dont take it the wrong way it is just a suggestion. Personally I race a stock car I kno9w the importnace of keeping good records of your changes and making one change at a time. You wil get it resolved quicker if you do. I hae dealt with alot of jet kits in motorcycles some better than others etc but usually once you have them set up the way you like you dont have to mess with them.
youngster66
Veteran
Filter kit
I ride up in Canada. Elevation is 1000 ft. Since installing the kit I feel the sled pulls like a freight train! I feel it pulls 30 % harder in the bottom-midrange, and same as stock on the top end. I have had no bogging or flat spots. ZR 900's are not a problem for me. Gas mileage is approx 14 mpg. Very happy with kit!! Thank you to the people on this site. It makes all Yamaha owners better educated about the performance of their sleds!
I ride up in Canada. Elevation is 1000 ft. Since installing the kit I feel the sled pulls like a freight train! I feel it pulls 30 % harder in the bottom-midrange, and same as stock on the top end. I have had no bogging or flat spots. ZR 900's are not a problem for me. Gas mileage is approx 14 mpg. Very happy with kit!! Thank you to the people on this site. It makes all Yamaha owners better educated about the performance of their sleds!
Powder Blue said:
Where is your carb coolant shutoff at? When I first installed mine I noticed that with it turned 100% off my sled would often not idle and die instead. I found that with the coolant on about 20% it idled fine. Must have been icing up.
Frostbite
TY 4 Stroke God
WOW! After a somewhat rocky beginning this post has developed into a real dandy!
My kit worked great initially except for the burble at 5-7,000 rpm. I rasied the needles one click and it seemed to diminish considerably. This was all with the yellow springs. The sled ran great (turning 106 mph top end) until I ballooned my carb bellows with the spray type carb cleaner (remember that one). By the way they are on back order until the 24th of the month so I must not be the only one.
Based on my very detailed records I went to McCall and tried the sled with 162.5 mains, silver springs and the airscrews at 1 3/4 turns. It ran horrible the first day. That evening Black Sabbath was kind enough to let me canabalize the bellows from his 03 RX-1M to try the next day.
Unfortunately (like Spray said) I did change more than one thing to make damn sure it was going to work the next day. I went to much lower (156.3 mains because we were running 6-8,000 feet and they were out of 157.5), I moved my fuel screws back to 1 1/4 turn (where it had run pretty well before). I left the silver springs in and tried them. The sled ran very well except for a very minor (compared to last time) midrange blubbering.
I got home back to 4-6,000 feet and decided to try jetting which is perhaps more fitting for my elevation (the 162.5). I bumped my airscrews back up to 1 3/4 to try it again and well you read the inital post.
I think the fuel screws on the bottom of the carbs are very directly affecting how the sled runs. I will bring them back to 1 1/4 turns and try the silver springs ONE more time. I will have the yellows with me and if the silvers don't work as well as I think the yellows will be going back in. They seem to work better for me and my elevation.
Carb cooling? it was off. I'll try cracking the valve slightly.
Jddieselperformance- I feel your pain. The fuel screws are on the bottom of the carb (at least those are the ones I'm adjsuting) hey, maybe that's the problem?
Thanks for the great information. PB
My kit worked great initially except for the burble at 5-7,000 rpm. I rasied the needles one click and it seemed to diminish considerably. This was all with the yellow springs. The sled ran great (turning 106 mph top end) until I ballooned my carb bellows with the spray type carb cleaner (remember that one). By the way they are on back order until the 24th of the month so I must not be the only one.
Based on my very detailed records I went to McCall and tried the sled with 162.5 mains, silver springs and the airscrews at 1 3/4 turns. It ran horrible the first day. That evening Black Sabbath was kind enough to let me canabalize the bellows from his 03 RX-1M to try the next day.
Unfortunately (like Spray said) I did change more than one thing to make damn sure it was going to work the next day. I went to much lower (156.3 mains because we were running 6-8,000 feet and they were out of 157.5), I moved my fuel screws back to 1 1/4 turn (where it had run pretty well before). I left the silver springs in and tried them. The sled ran very well except for a very minor (compared to last time) midrange blubbering.
I got home back to 4-6,000 feet and decided to try jetting which is perhaps more fitting for my elevation (the 162.5). I bumped my airscrews back up to 1 3/4 to try it again and well you read the inital post.
I think the fuel screws on the bottom of the carbs are very directly affecting how the sled runs. I will bring them back to 1 1/4 turns and try the silver springs ONE more time. I will have the yellows with me and if the silvers don't work as well as I think the yellows will be going back in. They seem to work better for me and my elevation.
Carb cooling? it was off. I'll try cracking the valve slightly.
Jddieselperformance- I feel your pain. The fuel screws are on the bottom of the carb (at least those are the ones I'm adjsuting) hey, maybe that's the problem?
Thanks for the great information. PB
RTX Meirda
TY 4 Stroke Master
I always thought the fuel screws were for idle....and it looks like everyone is using them to tune for mid range?
Just Curious.
Just Curious.
Cubby's RX-1
VIP Member
Hey Powderblue, I was curious, did you have any problems with your sleds performance before you installed the air kit?? And when did you melt the carb diaphrams, before or after the ECP kit? And is it possible if this carb cleaner you used that melted the diaphrams may have damaged something else in the carbs???? I'm not trying to be a smart #*$&@ here I am just trying to help you find your problem because I want you to be as happy with your sleds performance as I am with mine.---- Cubby
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