Did you guys see the new Cat Catalyst?

[sailor joe]

The only men riding a 600 were forced too because of rules,$ or blowing 800class motors. There is such a little difference in weight why would you not want the noticeable real world power difference that you can feel and see?

the guys I ride with came off Yamaha Ventures and the largest motor Doo produced, I think it was a 1200 and moved onto a 600 Doo with allot of delight not having deal with the heavier sleds on twisty trails in the Newry, Andover and Grafton Notch area where they ride. I put power steering on my STX so it is pretty nimble for a heavy sled but no optimal for that area. I'd welcome and hope the new Cat sled can raise the bar, then the competition for an even better sled is on...it's all good for us !!!

 

[Thunder Products]

Number one, yes…. They have a larger engine in the making which they made the Catalyst chassis for.

Number two, AC clutching has been $@&/ for a long time, like jon mentioned. Just glad AC and the engineers are giving us this chance to finally show them what perfect clutching, low clutch temps and excellent belt grab can do for a sled. Wish AC would sell a fully modded sled like they did with the Tucker Hibbert edition. Question is, when has there been a 132 horse 600 with lighter chassis, belt drive (less rotating mass) and now perfect clutching been run against an 850?

Those questioning the 600 Catalyst against the 850…. This was a pre-production sled which is still in testing (which we are in route towards Thief River Falls now) to finish testing so the Catalyst can go down the line end of this week. But the results are still the same. 600 way out front, the 850 playing catch up, but not enough to get by the 600

The first production Catalyst’s will be on the line later this week or early next week. Snow x sleds being built now, cross country sled and then the Catalyst

 

[jonlafon1]

Am I the only one who thinks this new sled is FUGLY? They go from best looking to ugly in one fell swoop! Yes, I am back after putting vette in storage for winter back to the Sidewinder forum from Corvette forum!

Welcome back!

 

[jonlafon1]

Number one, yes…. They have a larger engine in the making which they made the Catalyst chassis for.

Number two, AC clutching has been $@&/ for a long time, like jon mentioned. Just glad AC and the engineers are giving us this chance to finally show them what perfect clutching, low clutch temps and excellent belt grab can do for a sled. Wish AC would sell a fully modded sled like they did with the Tucker Hibbert edition. Question is, when has there been a 132 horse 600 with lighter chassis, belt drive (less rotating mass) and now perfect clutching been run against an 850?

Those questioning the 600 Catalyst against the 850…. This was a pre-production sled which is still in testing (which we are in route towards Thief River Falls now) to finish testing so the Catalyst can go down the line end of this week. But the results are still the same. 600 way out front, the 850 playing catch up, but not enough to get by the 600

The first production Catalyst’s will be on the line later this week or early next week. Snow x sleds being built now, cross country sled and then the Catalyst

Drive safe brother!

 

[stgdz]

So 132hp for the 600

 

[earthling]

Digging out a big old dose of s4*t disturbing out so we have numbers for trash talk.

Even at 132 HP, that's a 5% improvement in HP over a doo 600 class (125HP) machine. The Polaris 650 has been dyno'd at 138 and specs say 135.

The following is a non-paid non-endorsement, use of this information can create unpleasant side effects include dizziness, nausea, fits of rage, and unsubstantiated claims of superiority.

What we know so far.

Everything in blue is from a source (published specs) except for the catalyst sleds which of course we now have a rumor based number for HP, and the weights come from the comments of saving 50lbs which I just subtracted from the published weight of the Riot. Everything in yellow is calculated in one way or another. The catalyst X is what it takes to be competitive with an 850 (yes, ignoring any efficiency gains in in the drivetrain).

9 out of 10 doctors say that losing 50lbs from the riot won't do it. It may be a class beater as a 600 and that would be great on its own, I would certainly consider one. But if you take 50lbs from a Riot it only makes it squarely in the same weight class as a the other 600 class machines. So, similar weight, similar power, better drivetrain ... maybe..

Rotating mass (belt drive) is going to be lower but driveline efficiency will also be slightly lower in that chaincase equivalent when compared to a similar chain drive system. Belts are less efficient and more susceptible to heat related issues. The rotating mass will be important straight out of the hole at launch but its not as relevant once everything gets going as there is still 40lbs of paddled rubber fan whizzing around out back and most of the driveline losses are happening there. The loss through the rotating mass of chains/gearset is something, its not nothing, but it pales in comparison to losses through the track.

I really want the Catalyst to be a better sled. It could be the best 600 out there for sure, all it would require is, don't screw up the front end, find a slightly more forwards balance, give me a bit more room to move around, a more competitive skid, a better accessory list, some real marketing, and a carb free diet to get it into the game. Any improvements in the engine/driveline will be a huge bonus.

Cat needs to drag out some video evidence to show the new machines smoking the competition. That will fire up the entire sled world. Until then, we have no evidence of progress.

 

[Fleecer]

Number one, yes…. They have a larger engine in the making which they made the Catalyst chassis for.

Number two, AC clutching has been $@&/ for a long time, like jon mentioned. Just glad AC and the engineers are giving us this chance to finally show them what perfect clutching, low clutch temps and excellent belt grab can do for a sled. Wish AC would sell a fully modded sled like they did with the Tucker Hibbert edition. Question is, when has there been a 132 horse 600 with lighter chassis, belt drive (less rotating mass) and now perfect clutching been run against an 850?

Those questioning the 600 Catalyst against the 850…. This was a pre-production sled which is still in testing (which we are in route towards Thief River Falls now) to finish testing so the Catalyst can go down the line end of this week. But the results are still the same. 600 way out front, the 850 playing catch up, but not enough to get by the 600

The first production Catalyst’s will be on the line later this week or early next week. Snow x sleds being built now, cross country sled and then the Catalyst

Terry,
Here's my question, as you've seen and ridden the catalyst chassis:.

Will the 998 turbo fit in that chassis?

If not, what are their plans with the 998 motor?

They are probably pretty tight-lipped on the latter, but take a few engineers out on the town for an evening and feed them whiskey........perhaps they'll sing?? A few of us on this forum will chip in and help pay the tab!!

 

[earthling]

Terry,
Here's my question, as you've seen and ridden the catalyst chassis:.

Will the 998 turbo fit in that chassis?

If not, what are their plans with the 998 motor?

They are probably pretty tight-lipped on the latter, but take a few engineers out on the town for an evening and feed them whiskey........perhaps they'll sing?? A few of us on this forum will chip in and help pay the tab!!

Tell me where to send the money, I will buy a round.

 

[stevewithOCD]

Cat made a great move with coming out with the Catalyst 600. It seems all the folks I ride with use a 600, they say its lighter to handle, better on gas, no problem for the ladies to ride including my wife, easier to get out of a snow bank and with a 600 it's all the power they need to get around, especially on tight trails. Seems everyone I know is riding a 600 Doo, so if Cat can come out with something new and exciting it may help propel increased revenue...smart move to try to capture a new audience. If it turns out to be a great sled then they will get more market share, if not what have they really lost...not that much.

1. The 600 class has always dominated the industry for these reasons
2. Today they are barely lighter than an 850
3. In Northern Maine, at least for me, I got HORRIBLE gas mileage on my 600R
4. What the hell is a Sailor doing on a snowmobile?

 

[earthling]

List of changes to make the catalyst lighter. (source: Arctic Insider)

The reduction was accomplished using less plastics and parts, lighter seats, a new intake configuration (with a better seal), use of the ADAPT CVT system, shorter and lighter weight heat exchanger and a new belt drive system with less than half the components of the current chaincase system. The engine is also mounted with a long carbon fiber composite Torque Control Link (TCL) with integrated clutch guard which decreases weight and improves engine vibration dampening.

 

[stgdz]

@Thunder Products just to pick your brain for a bit

Can you give us some more insight on working with the engineers and some of the differences you have seen compared to the other three manufacturers?

Can you tell us what their testing environment consists of and how they benchmark and compare their product? There is probably no ASTM standard for performance on snowmobile trails.

Can you speak to how the engineers are operating post textron buyout? I know a bunch left when the buyout happened but can you speak as to how anything has changed?

Just curious if you know or if you don't that's fine and likely some of these questions are locked up in NDA.

 

[sailor joe]

1. The 600 class has always dominated the industry for these reasons
2. Today they are barely lighter than an 850
3. In Northern Maine, at least for me, I got HORRIBLE gas mileage on my 600R
4. What the hell is a Sailor doing on a snowmobile?

Having the time of my life on the sled, that's what this sailor is doing. Just saying I've seen the switch happening from heavy sleds to the 600's. Up in Northern Maine bigger is better, Newry area not so much. After 40 years at sea I've become a land lubber...

 

[stevewithOCD]

I can honestly say, I LOVED my 600!
I felt confident in the 600 motor cuz even the Dealer mechanics said they had NO 600 engine problems in 3 years compared to dozens of 850 issues.
At over 5000 miles a year, I just can't have a 2-stroke.

That said, it sounds like this CATalyst may have it going on.
I'm happy for Cat & the industry.
Problem is, I don't think any of this new design carries over to the 4-stroke.
Especially the belt drive, which looks like a good portion of weight loss & efficiency was gained.

 

[stevewithOCD]

Do you guys remember the POLARIS STAR that had the secondary mounted directly to the Driveshaft?
I know it was only an old school 340, but with today's technology & knowledge, I'm surprised nobody has worked with this again.
It COMPLETELY eliminated the chain case.

Think of that weight savings.

It would be a PITA to clutch, but hey.................think about it

 

[actionjack]

List of changes to make the catalyst lighter. (source: Arctic Insider)

The reduction was accomplished using less plastics and parts, lighter seats, a new intake configuration (with a better seal), use of the ADAPT CVT system, shorter and lighter weight heat exchanger and a new belt drive system with less than half the components of the current chaincase system. The engine is also mounted with a long carbon fiber composite Torque Control Link (TCL) with integrated clutch guard which decreases weight and improves engine vibration dampening.

Carbon fiber composite reminds me of a Yamaha patent that floats around here.