Dynotch shows 2011 APEX Mysteriously lost 10HP vs prototype

[MarkRTX]

All dynos aren't equal. It all depends on the input into the dyno and so forth. I have run my Harley on several dynos now since my mods and see anywhere from 78 hp/ 88 tq to over 92 hp/ 102 tq so dynos and techs can "make" the numbers anyway they want if need be. By the way my mid numbers for my HD are from one of the most respected tuners for Harleys anyway thats all he does, in the country and world for that matter. he explained to me all the different aspects that can be used to make better "numbers" to sell their service and parts. Mention Big Boyz dyno tuning or heads in the Harley world and someone will tell you he knows his stuff. My two cents to the whole thing.

 

[SuperStroker!]

If indeed the two sled's were dynoed on different dyno's than comparing the number's means nothing. The rest of the sled's all dynoed low for the shoot out also so i wouldn't get my undies all twisted up over it. I rode a new XTX this morning and i am telling you with all things equal it will stomp an older Apex once broke in with a huge difference in throttle response. I don't care what any one's dyno says i think i will need one next year. kviper

I think all of this is 'typically funny"...knowing what I know (and you know) about this whole industry.

I'm glad you confirmed my hopes regarding the XTX because I still plan on pulling the triger on one of these sleds next year.

It's been 11 years since I owned a trail sled...still have the race sleds and parts up the #*$&@ but I'll never race again!

I hope the trail sled gives me somthing to look forword to for next season.

 

[Daranello]

LOL. Good too know' my slightly modified nytro XTX has a fighting chance!!!! ;-)

 

[sx7001]

LOL. Good too know' my slightly modified nytro XTX has a fighting chance!!!! ;-)

Ya, but your Nytro is 120hp now. LOL

 

[SuperStroker!]

All dynos aren't equal. It all depends on the input into the dyno and so forth. I have run my Harley on several dynos now since my mods and see anywhere from 78 hp/ 88 tq to over 92 hp/ 102 tq so dynos and techs can "make" the numbers anyway they want if need be. By the way my mid numbers for my HD are from one of the most respected tuners for Harleys anyway thats all he does, in the country and world for that matter. he explained to me all the different aspects that can be used to make better "numbers" to sell their service and parts. Mention Big Boyz dyno tuning or heads in the Harley world and someone will tell you he knows his stuff. My two cents to the whole thing.

Sold the Harley's and bought a Yamaha Raider in 2008. Gotta tell ya...I may have lost the "bling" of the Harley's but I gained the 'zing" of the Yamaha Raider!

My god what a bike! The motor on the thing stock, is as sweet as it gets and the handling for a bike of this type is stunning! I made an 1800 mile trip on the thing in 4 days and I'm 52 years old. Can't say i wasn't hurting a little bit but what a sweet ride!

I since added a 120ci set of pistons, inserted the intake ports to make em flow...ported the heads and build a set of 58mm throttle bodies out of billet and this thing is a rip snortin freakin monster...it scares me at times and I'm no stranger to fast bikes!

The first time we ran it on the bike wheel dyno...it smoked the stock clutch and made 134 ft/lbs of torque on the pull and 116 HP at the wheel. Pulled it apart and installed a Barnet clutch pack and went back to the wheel dyno...she finally, after quite a bit of fuel and ignition adjustment, she made 124 HP and 141 ft/lbs at the rear wheel!

Hopefully, someone will come with cams soon...it needs about 500 RPM more and this thing will make 130HP...I know it can do it, my calculations which I have relied on for 30 years say it will and they never failed me in the past!

What a fun project and an equally amazing motorcycle!

And it's proven reliable so far...not really radical, so shouldn't be a problem unless beat the piss out of and hurt the tranny.

 

[dirkdiggler]

A well running Nytro can beat the older apex. But a good running apex will beat the good running Nytro. Simple matter of Power, RPM's, and a better chassis.

 

[KnappAttack]

Guys don't get your undies in a bunch. The dyno number is just a number. Compare it to the e-tec and 800 Cat. Also remember how the fourbanger comes to life after breakin. It will be ever the equal of the Cat and Doo once broke in whatever that number may be.

I know how it compares to the CFR I rode 250 miles with. I can run side by side with him in top speed and it isn't even broke in yet. There isn't a chance in hell a Nytro or old Apex is going to get a whiff of the 2011. It has a combo that is amazing for a stock NA sled.

It takes real power to run down groomed trails at 115-120 real MPH fresh out of the box. I've seen the dyno sheet and it doesn't look too lean to me with an efficient engine package. 13.6-13.7 for the 5 valve Apex, 13.0 for the Nytro I'm not sure the compression ratio difference but efficient engines run leaner.

Jim also said the just insert the O2 sensor as far as they can into the outlet pipe. Who's to say it isn't restricting flow in this particular case? Perhaps it is hampering flow and sucking a few HP away.

Jim also went on to say running it richer would possibly allow it to go maybe 155. That is only a three HP gain. If it even does make more at all, that remains to be seen.

If there is one thing I'm not concerned about it certainly is not the power this brute puts out. It has it in spades along with an extreme powerband. Pulling within one HP from 10,200 all the way to 11,000! After riding mine I'd say it has already picked up 10 HP from 0-250 miles! Its gone from 10,000 RPM up to 10,700. I know it takes all of 10 HP to pick up that kind of RPM.

Quit worrying about "the number". Worry more about fixing the slider wear and the other stuff.

 

[fourload]

All dynos are different. I have seen this numerous times when tuning cars etc. A nice broad torque curve is the most important thing for a sled.If all the other manufacturers sleds were down too on Jim's dyno who cares. I saw a chart at my dealer printed by Yamaha comparing the new Apex to Doo ,AC and Polaris and the chart said the Apex was around 163 but it did say the AC800 and the Etec was about 162 +too. I don't remember Polaris... The thing that impressed me was how much stronger the Apex was at the lower RPM's.

 

[Turk]

I owned 2 attaks & 2 nytros. No way no how will any apex or especially a nytro even with mods run with my apex xtx at 250 miles on the clock!

 

[dirkdiggler]

Quit worrying about "the number". Worry more about fixing the slider wear and the other stuff.

http://www.excellmotorsports.com/

FX Nytro XTX 8 Wheel Kit with mounting hardware $285.00

 

[blade072]

I owned 2 attaks & 2 nytros. No way no how will any apex or especially a nytro even with mods run with my apex xtx at 250 miles on the clock!

I agree Turk. I had a 07 Attak GT that was clutched, geared, etc.. My 2011 Apex XTX feels so much stronger and responsive in totally stock form and it has less than 150 miles on it. I will be running against my 07 Attak eventually which will tell the real story. Just look at how large the primary clutch weights are. That takes HP to move then.
Jim

 

[fourload]

Tomorrow we will see what the real world results will be with my sled vs 2011 Apex SE with 320 miles on it . The sled is stock with 153 studs in it. I know my friends sled will get faster so I will keep this in consideration if I beat him. My sled has been a very good runner with multiple 118-119 radar runs with a 24 top gear which is still in it. The track is a 1/2 mile airstrip with about 2+ inches over frozen ground. I've got a bad feeling if his sled hooks up it might be lights out for me. I am also curious to see if he can run around me if I do get him out of the hole. Will try to post results tomorrow.

 

[grubf]

Dyno Dyno Dyno. You don't ride a Dyno. What difference does it make as long as you are ahead? I have a bud with a new Pol pro-Ride 800. He says it tops out at 106. The "Doo" 800 is the same horse- quick from 0-100 but then all done. We have nothing to be worried about.

 

[SledFreak]

Re: Dynotch shows 2011 APEX Mysteriously lost 10HP vs protot

I went to Dynotech last night to check the Shoot-out HP certification tests on the 2011s and I noticed the 2011 APEX was around 152 HP.

Dynotech claims the fuel curve is lean in the cold winter air vs warmer summer air figures attained on the pre-production sled last year, probably for EPA certification values.

My first thought was break-in but that won't change the A/F ratio.

Looks like the Power Commander is the first purchase everyone should probable make...it's likely worth nearly 10 HP, based on the test results.

This might account for the hard starting issues on many sleds as well?????

Lean is great for fuel mileage but sucks for power on a 4-stroke!

This is exactly what I was saying in the other thread. Also, yes, Jim did buy a new dyno, but I am sure this was all done on the new dyno. I will check tommorrow. Jim also said that he used a FC in the summer to get the numbers. He just thought that it was the warm air causing the ECU to act differently. So, he did not disclose that info until now. But the results were the same, from then until now. Summer and Shootout dynos tests were 151. D&D did the same test on there own dyno and said the same. They said it is really lean. Reguardless.... This sled will make power, but you need a controller to see it. This is also the reason I believe that sleds are having a hard time starting.

 

[sx7001]

Mine had the "start" issue also. Last 4 rides it started perfect every time. GPS shows 12 hours of run time. (while moving) Idle is a lot more steady also.

larry