yamawarrior
Extreme
Supertuner
IF your were interested in seeing a sled that is pushing oil i can bring you mine. I live in Long Island and have a weekend home in Lake Luzerne. So Id be coming from LI if i brought you my sled.
[/quote]
IF your were interested in seeing a sled that is pushing oil i can bring you mine. I live in Long Island and have a weekend home in Lake Luzerne. So Id be coming from LI if i brought you my sled.
[/quote]
SUPERTUNER
TY 4 Stroke Master
Depending on where on LI you are you may only be 1.5 to 2.0 hours from my shop depending on if you take the ferry or not. If you want to arrange to get the sled here, call me. (203)756-7019. Perhaps you could stop by on your way to Lake Luzerne. We will give something a shot and then you go directly to Lake Luzerne and try it. I need a few days notice so I could have everything here that I want to try.
I would also like to know wether you have an evac or the crankcase vent filter.
Freddie
I would also like to know wether you have an evac or the crankcase vent filter.
Freddie
ReX
TY 4 Stroke God
Wow! I missed this section of the forum. I've been fighting with my stock 05 having the ventilation system freeze up and I'm looking for solutions too.
I've already blown the PTO seal once and found oil in my spark plug wells (almost blew the valvecover gasket), and consumed 3/4 of a quart of oil when it's frozen up.
Here is what I've found in 5300 kms. Mine freezes up the worst when I'm riding for many hours at cruising speeds in very cold conditions. If I'm blasting from corner to corner with my aggressive riding buddies there doesn't seem to be a problem (even after 10 hours straight in -30°).
Here's my theory:
- the 05's have improved ring sealing so there is typically less blowby
- all motors have some blowby, so there is moisture (byproduct of combustion) and gasses that need to escape.
- in order to keep any ventilation system from freezing, enough warm air has to flow through it to keep it above freezing. Eg. a PCV system is almost constantly sucking. Since the engine is vented, the PCV can constantly flow, keeping the vent temperature up. Even PCV systems can freeze up, but it's not common (I've only heard of it below -50°C).
- with the smaller amount of blowby the 05's have, the moist gases slowly "waft" down the tube and the tube gets cold.
- the moisture condenses on the cold walls of the tube and freezes (on the cold days).
- eventually it builds up to the point that it blocks the hose and pressure starts to build in the crankcase.
As a note, if you have a motor with lots of blowby, the larger quantity of warm gases flowing through the tube will keep it from freezing. Similarly, running a motor harder produces more blowby and more heat in the engine bay which reduces the freezing problem.
How do we fix it?
I'm not sure what is the best fix, but here are some thoughts:
- Add more slits to the hose inside the airbox (yamaha's fix - I don't think it will work because I believe it is freezing closer to the engine)
- Add slits to the hose close to the engine. Downside is oily vapour will condense wherever it flows to.
- Add a foil heater around the breather hose to keep it from freezing. Downside it will use power and how do you regulate the temperature, etc.
- Lengthen the carb heater hose and run it alongside the breather hose and tape/zip tie them together (or run the smaller coolant hose inside the ventilation hose). It's a bit of a pain to do and might not heat the hose very well, but it should work to some extent.
- Insulate the breather hose, starting right at the engine to keep the temperature up. I was thinking of household pipe insulation. This should work, but I haven't checked to see if there's space, etc. to do it.
- Run a heater hose alongside and wrap pipe insulation around the pair. This would definitely work, but might take a bit of effort.
For the ECP kit, I personally don't like the idea of a water trap that has to be emptied on a regular basis. If we can keep the temperature up (insulation/coolant line) so the water stays more in gas form and feed it directly to the filters it shouldn't freeze (except possibly at the filter a little - I suspect things will warm up quickly when idling/shut down for short periods). Tilting the line all the way back to the motor so any condensed oil/water goes back in the engine, but keeping the temp up so most of the water makes it to the filters as vapour should solve the draining the system pain and keep the engine bay cleaner. You also probably want a larger portion in line to act as a catch can for oil (like the stock plastic "thing") and let it drain back into the engine when the blowby reduces (lower throttle)
BTW, this is a very common problem with 4-strokes that are used in the winter without a full PCV system. My generator freezes up after 24 hours, my buddy was constantly blowing seals on his snowblowers (in the business of clearing snow), my personal snowblower has frozen up, almost all of my buddies have blown seals on their 4-stroke trikes and quads over the years with this problem. The hose slit is almost always used, but it always makes a mess. Every engine built has some blowby. 4-strokes have to vent these moisture rich gases somehow.
I've already blown the PTO seal once and found oil in my spark plug wells (almost blew the valvecover gasket), and consumed 3/4 of a quart of oil when it's frozen up.
Here is what I've found in 5300 kms. Mine freezes up the worst when I'm riding for many hours at cruising speeds in very cold conditions. If I'm blasting from corner to corner with my aggressive riding buddies there doesn't seem to be a problem (even after 10 hours straight in -30°).
Here's my theory:
- the 05's have improved ring sealing so there is typically less blowby
- all motors have some blowby, so there is moisture (byproduct of combustion) and gasses that need to escape.
- in order to keep any ventilation system from freezing, enough warm air has to flow through it to keep it above freezing. Eg. a PCV system is almost constantly sucking. Since the engine is vented, the PCV can constantly flow, keeping the vent temperature up. Even PCV systems can freeze up, but it's not common (I've only heard of it below -50°C).
- with the smaller amount of blowby the 05's have, the moist gases slowly "waft" down the tube and the tube gets cold.
- the moisture condenses on the cold walls of the tube and freezes (on the cold days).
- eventually it builds up to the point that it blocks the hose and pressure starts to build in the crankcase.
As a note, if you have a motor with lots of blowby, the larger quantity of warm gases flowing through the tube will keep it from freezing. Similarly, running a motor harder produces more blowby and more heat in the engine bay which reduces the freezing problem.
How do we fix it?
I'm not sure what is the best fix, but here are some thoughts:
- Add more slits to the hose inside the airbox (yamaha's fix - I don't think it will work because I believe it is freezing closer to the engine)
- Add slits to the hose close to the engine. Downside is oily vapour will condense wherever it flows to.
- Add a foil heater around the breather hose to keep it from freezing. Downside it will use power and how do you regulate the temperature, etc.
- Lengthen the carb heater hose and run it alongside the breather hose and tape/zip tie them together (or run the smaller coolant hose inside the ventilation hose). It's a bit of a pain to do and might not heat the hose very well, but it should work to some extent.
- Insulate the breather hose, starting right at the engine to keep the temperature up. I was thinking of household pipe insulation. This should work, but I haven't checked to see if there's space, etc. to do it.
- Run a heater hose alongside and wrap pipe insulation around the pair. This would definitely work, but might take a bit of effort.
For the ECP kit, I personally don't like the idea of a water trap that has to be emptied on a regular basis. If we can keep the temperature up (insulation/coolant line) so the water stays more in gas form and feed it directly to the filters it shouldn't freeze (except possibly at the filter a little - I suspect things will warm up quickly when idling/shut down for short periods). Tilting the line all the way back to the motor so any condensed oil/water goes back in the engine, but keeping the temp up so most of the water makes it to the filters as vapour should solve the draining the system pain and keep the engine bay cleaner. You also probably want a larger portion in line to act as a catch can for oil (like the stock plastic "thing") and let it drain back into the engine when the blowby reduces (lower throttle)
BTW, this is a very common problem with 4-strokes that are used in the winter without a full PCV system. My generator freezes up after 24 hours, my buddy was constantly blowing seals on his snowblowers (in the business of clearing snow), my personal snowblower has frozen up, almost all of my buddies have blown seals on their 4-stroke trikes and quads over the years with this problem. The hose slit is almost always used, but it always makes a mess. Every engine built has some blowby. 4-strokes have to vent these moisture rich gases somehow.
Almost RX-1 I like your idea of running the carburator heater hose inside of the vent hose but what you want is the heat not the chance of filling your engine with coolant if a hose ruptures or comes apart. I have crudely drawn up a heat exchanger that could be built and installed and you will never freeze the vent line again while making the possibility of filling your crankcase with antifreeze nil. Freddie this should work to put an end to this line freezing up if you build something like this. I was thinking this could be built with copper fittings and line.
Attachments
ReX
TY 4 Stroke God
I built the heated crankcase ventilation system - using the stock oil separator.
Basically I ran the carb heater hose alongside the crankcase breather tube as it exits the motor, around the separator, and up to the air box.
I wrapped the whole thing first with fire retardant pipe insulation (aluminum backed) and then wrapped the entire thing with aluminum foil tape.
It doesn't look too bad.
You guys should try something like this for the ECP kit setup's.
I'll try to take some pictures.
Basically I ran the carb heater hose alongside the crankcase breather tube as it exits the motor, around the separator, and up to the air box.
I wrapped the whole thing first with fire retardant pipe insulation (aluminum backed) and then wrapped the entire thing with aluminum foil tape.
It doesn't look too bad.
You guys should try something like this for the ECP kit setup's.
I'll try to take some pictures.
Red2003
TY 4 Stroke Guru
I totally agree with rxrnhrider. These are supposed to be performance engines and they should be made to spin at 10,000 rpm all day long. If race cars doing the 24 hours of Daytona burnt oil like my 03 RX1, they'd need to carry a 55 gallon drum in the car with them. I am using a quart at 200 miles and only have 1300 miles on the sled. Proper break in and I rarely go WOT. Yamaha has a problem here, and just won't fix it. I agree, its in the rings. Shouldn't be anywhere near that much venting issues in an inline 4. Just my opinion.
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